Wayfarer Step Into the Dust Bowl on "American Gothic" (Interview)

More than a decade into their existence, Wayfarer’s core appeal is undiluted. A huge part of this remains their ability to weave tantalising threads between the past and the present of US history both sonically and narratively, paired with an honesty that sees them as welcome among the Denver venues and scenes they grew up in, as they are at an international metal festival.

Their new album American Gothic picks up immediately where 2021’s A Romance With Violence left off - if the romantic notion of the West was only an idea, what happens when people lose faith in it? We spoke with Wayfarer guitarist and vocalist Shane McCarthy to find out.

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A selection of songs from American Gothic debuted in an extended set at Roadburn earlier this year, how did it feel playing a full set’s worth of new material to an audience that hadn't heard it before.

It was definitely interesting. We hadn't really done that before. From a band logistics standpoint it was pure chaos to do that, because we were in the middle of a tour where we had a live drummer filling in for Isaac, who had some Blood Incantation commitments at the time. So we really made it as insane as possible for ourselves, we did three weeks of the tour, with the other drummer playing the other set, and then Isaac flew to The Netherlands and we had one rehearsal day working on all the American Gothic stuff, and then went on to immediately play one of the one of the bigger shows we have played up to this point.

When we got there I was thinking: why did we decide to do this again? (laughs) but it was really cool. Roadburn is such an incredible event, so curated and intentional instead of just saying hey, let's throw a bunch of bands together on a bill. So I think it was definitely the right place to do something like that. It's such a cool and receptive audience and we were glad to see that people did respond to it. Nobody out there knew a single note of it, so we’re like, alright, well, I hope you like this, because we're all gonna find out at the same time. It was a nice way to kick off this chapter, we actually weren't even 100% done with the record at that point, we had gone back to Philadelphia, recorded all the instruments and some of the vocals before we left for the European tour, then I actually flew back to Philadelphia to record the rest of the vocals after the tour. I think it was recorded, and I haven't watched it. And I probably won't; I'm sure in hindsight we’ll end up playing a bunch of shows based on the album, so I won't be as stoked about how the first time went, but I'm glad we did it.

There was a funny moment when everyone was anticipating the set and there was an announcement to say that the songs aren't out yet, please don't record or post them. And everyone responded very seriously and respectfully and put their phones away.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's just, again, the type of event it is. I do remember part way through the set, looking down, and seeing one guy in the front row, just full camera out and I’m trying to make eye contact with him. We play enough shows that we don't get too nervous too often. But that one, just because it was a complete dry run, I was like well, we'll see how this goes.

During the set you spoke poignantly about Wayfarer’s 15 year journey and your growing understanding and acceptance that the Denver Sound was going to be a big part of the band. You have opened your arms to the Denver Sound, has it done the same to you? Does it feel like an even relationship?

It’s such a specific little scene that's based here, and a lot of the artists that come to mind are still going and yeah, the whole family around Slim Cessna’s Auto Club and and all the various (Jay) Munly projects. Those guys are really, really awesome, and they've been really supportive of us. I still never know if they’re like.. just doing this to be nice? Because I've been seeing them play since I was a teenager, it's obviously a different world of things. But they've been really welcoming to us. And we've played together a few times, Munly did the voiceover for the video that was a part of the Roadburn set, which was really cool. Those guys have really, really welcomed us. And we've got to work alongside them a few times, which is rad, we've crossed paths with David Edwards, via Fire in the Mountains, and he's always been a nice enough guy, but I think he's a very kind sort of dude. So I honestly have no idea if he's ever even listened to the band or what he thinks about it, but he's been cool to us in person, and it's always great to watch him perform. This is my outside view, so I could be all the way off. It's still such a niche thing in a way, the people who love it really love it, but I think those musicians in that scene don't get the respect they totally deserve. And I think, in a way, some of them maybe appreciate that there's a younger band and a different scene beating the drum for it. At least I would like to think so. To us, it's just important to do right by it and always recognise the people that had so much profound influence on us.

It seems like this connected world that doesn't necessarily tie itself to a specific sound. Great note about David Edwards, he is enigmatic in real life as he is on record.

Yeah, I've met him more than a couple times at this point, and let's just say there's not there's not a whole lot of conversation there. But he's always been nice and cordial enough, and what an incredible musician, one of my all time favourites, for sure was someone we look up to.

You mentioned Fire in the Mountains. They're such a shame what happened there, I think that they've called it time this year?

Yep. Yep. The location that had been hosting the festival was no longer going to issue permits for it just because of a whole kind of larger political situation, a lot of pressure from the wealthy community that is next to it that has never, never really been open minded to having an event like that near them. And that's what it comes down to.

The musical toolbox that Wayfarer works with is quite broad, like a typical album, you have longer songs, shorter songs, vignettes, work with samples and instrumental pieces as well. Was this always part of the design document for the band, or is it something that's happened over time?

I think it's something that's happened over time, I think we want to make sure we aren’t getting bored with doing the same sort of song structures again, and again and again. And also, we think really top down, kind of a big picture when making a record. So typically from the start, we know we want it to have some sort of like ebbs and flows. So we might not know the exact structure from the get go, but it is somewhat planned out - we're gonna have a couple like really deep exploring longer songs, and we want a couple more to the throat sort of songs or like something that just captures a feeling for a short amount of time. And so, yeah, it's something that the last couple albums have had to some degree, we've actually made some effort to not write 10 minute songs all the goddamn time. That is one thing there is still some of that on the record, but we wanted to do some compositions that are more focused on saying and doing one thing and doing it right but not overstaying the welcome. So it's kind of a big picture design.

Does that in turn give you a bit more freedom when it comes to setlists?

Yeah, I would think so. We're kind of just just starting the life cycle for this album, but I think it will help to have some more flexibility. When you have a bunch of 10 minute songs, and especially if you're doing something like a support slot, it's like, alright, what three songs are we gonna play today? So the others and I want the sets to be adaptable to their situations and be able to focus on different aspects of the band. So we'll find out.

So one of the questions I have for you is about the Wayfarer Extended Universe, if that's the right term for it. I was going to ask about the release of Lykotonon. Am I saying that right?

Yeah, I don't think any of us know exactly how it is supposed to be said. But that's close enough.

So I want to ask about the different themes and tonality of that band, and then again with Stormkeep (your involvement in which was news to me!) Three completely different acts doing completely different things, what different purposes do they serve for you?

It's really healthy, musically, I think to have different outlets. First of all, you know, we're all into a lot of different stuff. Limiting yourself to any one band kind of ends up with this kitchen sink approach of well, I like this, but I also like this, and you're trying to find a way to fit it all in. Since we've gotten so focused on really fleshing out, and going headlong into aesthetics and concepts and sounds, it just made more sense to say okay, this band is focused on doing this and doing this, and then this band can go down this pathway and really do that. The three of us: myself, Isaac, and James are in all three of these projects. And it makes for a really healthy dynamic, where we have different roles, and will actually play different things like Isaac drums in Wayfarer, and in Lykotonon and he plays guitar and does vocals in Stormkeep, and Jamie will switch between guitar and bass in the various bands. So it's cool that way to approach it differently. Then more importantly, all the bands are collaborative, they all work in little different ways, but we all collaborate on each of them, and each one has a different person at the helm, driving the songwriting and the concepts. So Wayfarer's myself and in Lykotonon, it's James and Stormkeep is Isaac. And I think that's really healthy too, everyone has their outlet to really focus on fleshing out and then we can come to the other ones and just try to contribute to what that goal is. I think it's made all of us better musicians and just more creatively satisfied, everyone kind of gets their full say somewhere while contributing to everything.

There's a quote that appears in the text that accompanies American Gothic: “What we have now is a world full of oil drillers, and railroad barons. Cattle thieves and company men. This is the new American Gothic.” Your academic and personal interest in history is very well documented. I'm wondering if that particular quote is being said in character at a certain place in time, or does now mean now?

It’s supposed to be up for interpretation, the whole album is through the lens of somewhere between the turn of the century up to kind of the 1930s, Dust Bowl era, all the change that was taking place, the institutions taking hold in the United States at that time. So that narration piece is also set in that time, but that line in particular is to illustrate the fact that those are things that were put in place, and still apply. Now, that might be under a different kind of skin. But it's the same basic concept that would describe the country and the world we are in today. So, yeah, that line in particular, is purposefully a broader, metaphoric statement that well, is rooted in that time, with parallels to today.

The lyrics to the song “False Constellation” are quite severe, citing the death of a nation, the death of a way of life. What comes after something like that?

I don't know. I've made sure to say this in a lot of interviews, because we really like to explore these concepts, and this kind of historical or mythological. We don't profess to be experts or to have answers to the questions, it's more of an exploration, to try and capture the feel of something and trying to grapple with it. We’ve touted the record as the funeral for the American dream. And that's the thing, it's less the death of a nation and it's more of the death of an idea questioning if it ever really actually existed beyond an idea.

The last album was kind of about the romantic concept of the Wild West, this open wild landscape and all the myth and legend that is spun out of that. And by the end of it, it's questioning: what happened to this dream that we were all told about? Where does it actually exist? And that's where American Gothic picks up: the dream is dead, and maybe has always been dead. And what is left? What is it to be in this place? And it's a pretty grim haunted kind of exploration from there. I wish I had the answer to that question, but we're all just kind of living day to day, doing what we can.

I find talking to people like yourself from other places typically ends up a little more engaging than a conversation in a room that’s all about the United States. It has a very unique history and a very unique place in the world. But the more you dive into these things with others, you see that there are so many parallels to draw with other places, even though they might have had a different path. You're in England, right? Hundreds of years old instead of 200 some odd years like here, but you can look at the government today and you see that humans have the same universal pitfalls, you know. The more I learned about the specific identity and specific struggles and mistakes of the United States, the more I see that everyone's kind of doing the same thing just in different ways.

The only place I can speak credibly about having lived most of my life here is the UK, and you really don't have to do much digging to find the darker side of its history and the mountain of exploitation that it's built on. And like you say; seemingly wherever there is society, there are stories like this.

It would be comforting to be presented with other narratives, but humans are fucked up.

Wayfarer’s music doesn't hide itself. So much of the black metal that I love intentionally obscures itself, whether it's behind distortion or ambiguity, all these things that kind of add murk to the music. But you have this clarity of production and through line of melody that is incredibly appealing. How proactive are you in producing that kind of music?

It mostly just comes down to what the writing calls for, how it will be presented, how it should sound. For this album, we had our goals kind of dialled in, we knew what type of album we were trying to make from the start. And we really wanted to make sure we found somebody who would bring it to life in its most fully fleshed form. And so we sought out artists specifically after having a conversation about wanting to get someone who does impressive work. And I think maybe our first instinct was in thinking about the bigger name producers that had worked with artists similar to us, growing up in the early and mid 2000s, and whatnot. And then we considered that people kind of have their moments and sometimes do their best work younger, having kind of a hunger to do it. And so we're like, okay, who's the person today who's like, at the top of their game, you know, like making the best sounding stuff because they have a drive to do it. And that's when we landed on Arthur (Rizk) because not only is he a great musician (you can hear the stamp he puts on his own bands that he does a lot of writing for,) but he has been able to tackle a lot of different styles, things even outside of metal, but definitely a lot of heavy things. And he seems to have a strength for letting the band be the best version of themselves. And that's why we went with him, and that paid off immediately, he really has a certain touch and a certain way of working, and added a lot to the record.

We do want it to sound a certain way, it’s not a hazy, obscured sort of thing, it hopefully has textures, it's kind of dusty, or will bring certain imagery to mind, but we want it to be heard. We don't 100% see ourselves as a black metal band, it's just kind of the easiest thing to call it. If we distil it down to something, it's a Western take on black metal, to a point, but we have a lot of influence from melodic death metal as well, as well as other genres of metal and otherwise. So we don't approach album's by saying okay we're going to make a black metal album, how should a black metal album sound? Instead: we're going to make the next Wayfarer album, and that may be more or less in relation to black metal, but we don't really care. You know, it's going to be whatever it is.

I immediately think of “Vaudeville” as an example of a song that is not entirely metal leaning and that is nonetheless heavy, it's just in a different space.

Awesome. Yeah, that was the last song we wrote for Romance. And I think that set us down the path we're at now with American Gothic, fully embracing and diving headlong to all the elements of the band in one place instead of having to, like sequester them into separate songs, you know. And so I'm glad it comes out that way. I think that felt like a turning point for us for sure.

I’m a real sucker for a really good album opener. There's just something great about pushing play on an album for the first time and instantly buying into a work and wanting to understand it better. American Gothic starts with “The Thousand Tombs of Western Promise” and it's this huge epic song that feels almost operatic in scale with the gorgeous acoustic intro, and subsequent weaving guitar melodies. Can you tell us a bit more about that song, how it came together and how it ended up being the first time on the record.

I'm definitely the same way, a record’s opening is so important. Just going back to being young and like hearing something for the first time, if it’s good it really washes over you, I guess the word that comes to mind is like world building, something that pulls you in right away, and says this is where you are now. And if you're gonna be listening to this for the next 45 minutes, this is where you're going, it’s always really cool when you get press play on something, and you're immediately pulled into the world of the record.

That was definitely what we were really trying to do with that song. It was written midway through or maybe towards the end of the writing process, because it was one of those things, we knew vaguely what we wanted out of a first song, we'll know it when it happens in terms of writing. We’d written a couple pieces for the record and it's like, yeah, these are great, but we know we haven't done the thing yet that’ll open the record, and then eventually just started to figure out how to rope somebody into the American Gothic world and aesthetic. Maybe these are details that nobody cares about but we started experimenting with other tunings on this record. There are actually two different tunings, where about half the record is still in drop C, which all of the last two records were in. But the other half is in an open C tuning that really specifically lends itself to slide guitar, if you notice there's a tonne of slide guitar, kind of interwoven all over the record. And again, we're trying to do that in a very integrated way, where it's not not always obvious that it's there, it's just like a part of the sound in general. Playing with a slide you have one fret going on at any time and that’s all that’s going to happen, but that tuning made a difference because you can do so much with the open strings. When you’re playing in that open C tuning, it has this certain dark quality that we really liked, and I think that song was really just us fleshing that out to a full kind of metal composition. Because the first couple of things we’d done with it were more based around the key aspects of that sound, but this one was like, okay, can we do a big pull you in immediately, metal song, using these sounds? And that's where it came from.

To go back to Denver: the band has spent so many years now sharing the location, the landscape and the stories through music. I wonder whether your schedule and your day to day life still allows you the time to really get out and be inspired by the landscape, and really still interact with Denver in that way.

Not as much as I would like. But you know, I think a lot of that is just my own fault. I remember, several years ago, visiting a friend in New York City, and we went to Central Park, because I thought at that time, I had never been there and I wanted to see it. Because you know, it's a very kind of iconic location. Talking to them, they were like, Yeah, I never come here. Because I live here, and I get so caught up in life that even though you're right in the middle of all this stuff, you kind of have blinders on to what you're doing. And I think that's, that's true for a lot of people and definitely true for myself here where my fiance and I will try to get out and go camping and go to explore the mountains, here and there when we can, but I feel like the times that happens most are when people come to visit us. And every time I say, oh yeah, why don't we spend more time doing this. But it's just getting roped into the boring machinations of daily life. And, you know, going from point A to point B, you sometimes forget where you are. All this is to say, I wish I did more, I do try to get out when we can. And honestly, sometimes it's the band that makes it happen, you know, we're gonna film a video or take some photos or just look for some art inspiration so we get out somewhere. And that's always the reminder that this is all right next to us, and we should probably enjoy it more.

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American Gothic releases today via Profound Lore.