Under the "Sign of the Cross," Savage Grace Strikes Again (Interview)

Los Angeles speed metal progenitors Savage Grace have a lengthy and storied history. Formed in 1981 at the height of the NWOBHM and early beginnings of the U.S. thrash metal explosion, Savage Grace were one of the frontrunners of the early speed metal/thrash scene, even before Metallica and Slayer began to conquer the world.

Led by guitarist Christian Logue, the band tore up the West Coast by playing all the major Los Angeles and San Francisco metal venues at the time. At one point, the band consisted of Randy Rhoads’ brother Kelle as the singer, and he ended up naming the band. Savage Grace kicked off their career by appearing on the Metal Blade Records’ Metal Massacre II compilation with the track “Scepters of Deceit” in 1982, while their 1985 debut, full-length album Master of Disguise has become a cult classic speed metal gem.

After 37 years, Savage Grace has returned with its third full-length album Sign of the Cross. In the following interview, Christian Logue chatted with us about the band’s early days, his determination in recording the new album, and what lies ahead for the band.

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The current lineup of Savage Grace is a diverse, international band. You were born in Hawaii, and Gabriel’s from Puerto Rico, while Marcos and Fabio are both from Brazil. What’s the camaraderie and musical chemistry like between the band members?

Musically, we’re all very much on the same page. When Gabriel joined the band, I asked him who his favorite singers were, and he said Rob Halford and Graham Bonnet. I’ve been a Priest fan since 1978 and a Graham Bonnet fan since around the same time. The guys from Brazil, they’re hardcore metal fans from the beginning. We’re really musically on the same page.

Savage Grace formed in 1981 at the height of NWOBHM and the early U.S. thrash scene. What was that time like for you and the band?

We’re from Los Angeles, and the time frame that we started—in 1981—there was no metal scene at all in Los Angeles. All the clubs were having bands, like, what they used to call new wave bands, like The Blimps Souls, The Scooters, The Motels, these kinds of bands with short haircuts. It was terrible; there were no heavy metal bands out there.

Around late 1982, we did our first gig at a place called The Odd Fellows Hall in Pasadena on a bill with Ratt and Armored Saint. And we were speed metal at that time; there was nobody playing speed metal in LA except us. Armored Saint is not really speed metal; they’re more generic heavy metal. Ratt is generic heavy metal. So, we were the only speed metal band at that time. And Metallica had started just about the same time as we had, but they hadn’t even done any gigs yet. So, we were the first speed metal and NWOBHM type of band in LA. Then by late ’82/early ’83, some more bands started to get into it. And by the middle of ’83, there was a pretty major heavy metal scene in LA by then.

That’s about the time when the glam metal—later to be named hair metal—was happening. Were you interacting with these types of bands, or were you playing up in the Bay Area at Ruthie’s Inn with bands such as Metallica or Exodus?

We played with Exodus in San Francisco at Ruthies Inn and Muhaby Gardens in the middle of ’83. That’s when we had John Birk as our singer. Those guys were fine with us. When we got there, everybody there was their fans, but they were respectful to us. We went up there with Slayer; it was Slayer, Savage Grace and Exodus on those. And as far as the hair metal bands, we didn’t have a lot of interaction with them because we considered that kind of lightweight. We associated with more heavy metal bands like Abattoir; we played with them a lot. We played with Armored Saint a lot. We played with Lizzy Borden a lot, and Bitch. But as far as hair metal like Poison or Pandemonium, we rarely would be put on a bill with those types of bands.

What was it like at that time for Savage Grace experiencing the scene and playing with all the cool bands that you mentioned?

We knew we were part of something; we knew we were part of a movement. But Savage Grace, we had a more European sound like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest because we did a lot of guitar harmonies, and we were very fast. So, people didn’t know what to make of us. We were much more popular in Europe than we were in America. Even though we had a big following in LA, we never toured America until 1987. We toured Europe twice before we toured America.

But as far as the clubs… from ’83 to ’87 in LA was just insane. There would be bands playing every night, whether it was in Hollywood at the Starwood or the Troubadour, the Whiskey, the Roxy, or in the Valley at the Country Club, or in Orange County at Woodstock Radio City. If you wanted to see metal, you could go out seven days a week. You could go to the Rainbow, and it’d be packed with metal heads every night. And girls! You could just literally kill yourself with it if you wanted to. In ’83/’84, we weren’t really hanging out at The Rainbow every night, because we were too busy working. We were getting the band going, we were improving ourselves. We got rid of John Birk and brought in Mike Smith. By the time we got Mike Smith in the band in 1984, The Olympics were happening, and that was a big deal. Not for us, but for normal people… By then, we were really starting to click. And after we put Master of Disguise out, then we were on the road.

Is it true that the band name was suggested by Randy Rhoads? Because his brother Kelle was your first singer.

Yes, he was. It was Kelle Rhoads who came up with the name Savage Grace because we used to be called Marquis de Sade. And I loved that name; I thought it was great. But nobody liked it. Everybody hated that name. So, Kelle said, “Let’s change the name to Savage Grace.” And I thought it was a great name, but I didn’t know there was already a band called Savage Grace from Detroit that had two albums out on Warner Bros. I didn’t know that. So, we took the name Savage Grace. And Kelle said that he talked to Randy and that he was going to produce our demo. We were stoked that Randy Rhoads was going to produce our demo, and then he gets killed. And after that, Kelle was devastated, of course. We were going to have to move on without him because he was too devastated. That’s when we got John Birk.

Savage Grace first gained some significant recognition with “Scepters of Deceit” featured on the Metal Massacre II compilation; how did this relationship with Metal Blade and Brian Slagel come about?

We had a singer on that demo named Dwight Cliff, and he said he knew a guy in Phoenix, and we could get the demo recorded on spec. So, we drove out to Phoenix, and we recorded those four songs: “Scepters of Deceit,” “Genghis Khan,” “Curse the Night,” and one other tune, I think. And when we got back, Dwight said there was a guy starting a metal label in Woodland Hills; his name is Brian Slagel. So, we drove out there to meet him, and Slagel was about 19 years old when we met him. He looked 40, but he was 19. We didn’t know he was 19; we thought he was, like, 40 years old. And he said he loved it and that he was going to put us on the compilation, Metal Massacre II. So, that was our first deal. And then after that, we did one or two more shows with Dwight. Then most of us felt that Dwight didn’t quite fit in because he was much older. Dwight was, like, 29, and I was, like, 20. So, there was kind of a generation gap. So, we got rid of Dwight; we brought in John Birk. Then we went back to Slagel, and he said he was going to sign us to do an EP, but we wanted to do an LP. Slagel said, “I don’t have the money for an LP.”

Master of Disguise has become a cult classic speed metal gem. What were your expectations with the release of it?

As we went into the recording of Master of Disguise, the morale in the band was super high because we knew what we had. And at that time, we were one of the top club drawers in LA. If you look at the flyers from that time, we were playing all over the place. We brought Kurt Phillips in from Canada, and the band sounded great. The band looked great; (vocalist) Mike Smith was incredible. And in the studio, I realized that Kurt Phillips, his lead playing wasn’t where it should be. So I fired him, and I got all the guitar tracks. Ronnie James Dio would come down to the studio, as he was working with Rough Cutt in the same studio. And he was listening to the tracks, and he loved Mike Smith, he thought he was an incredible singer. So, I was actually going to hit Ronnie up to get us a deal, and then Ronnie had to go out on the road. And so I didn’t want to put the record out with (Brian) Slagel (on Metal Blade Records) because we didn’t see any money from The Dominatress EP. So, I had to look for another deal, and that’s how we found the Important (Record Distributors, Inc.) deal. And then after we got the Important deal, I got a letter from Black Dragon, a new label in France. They said, “We want to license the record for Europe, and we’re going to give you this amount of money and bring you over on tour.” And I said, “Done!”

What led to the band’s hiatus in 1992, and then the reformation in 2020?

We went to New York in September 1989 because we signed a management contract with a major manager who was managing Gregg Allman at the time. And this woman and her partner had a lot of money, and they said, ‘We’re going to get behind you guys and showcase you in New York and get you a major deal.’ So we moved to New York. People think we just broke up. We didn’t break up; we were very active from 1987 to ’92. We were touring the East Coast, South Texas… we were out. And we were showcasing in New York; we were one of the number one of the top club drawers in New York City. We had an incredible following there. In 1991, we were offered a major deal with MCA Records, which I tore up the contract in their office. Then, after that, everybody wanted to hear Seattle music. No majors were interested in metal; they were all getting rid of their major metal groups. By ’92, we figured there was no hope. So, we deactivated the band in ’92.

Did you officially reform in 2009? If so, why was it short-lived at only a year?

In 2009, the Keep It True promoters asked if I’d like to play, and I said I would love to but I didn’t have a band. And they said, ‘What if we get you a band?’ That’s how it came together for 2010. After 2010, we did 15 dates over there. I asked the guys from Roxxcalibur if they wanted to do a new album with me, and they said they were too busy. So, I said I’d hire some other guys. I started recording in Dusseldorf, Germany, and the guy who ran the label turned out to be a crook. He stole a guitar from me, a computer, and $400 bucks. So, I left and didn’t see an opportunity for Savage Grace in those years. In 2019, I finished my book after seven years of writing it and started a website and started sending out press releases. And my agent friend Matt Ferrara called me and said that it’s only natural that I put out a new album. I told him I wasn’t going to put out a new album unless we had a fantastic singer. And he says, “I know a guy, you’re gonna like him.” And he sent me the tape. I listened to Gabriel Colón, and he had that high, clean voice that I really liked; like TNT. I’ve always wanted a singer like that.

Did the pandemic have anything to do with the delay of the new album?

It was March of 2020, the pandemic happened. I knew that they were going to shut down the whole country and force people to get vaccinated. So I said, I gotta get the hell out of here before they come after me. I tried to go to Colombia, and they were already restricted; you couldn’t get it. Then I bought a ticket to go to Panama, and they were already restricted, and I couldn’t get it. The only place I could go that was still open was Mexico, and I flew to Cancun with all my gear, and I got down there and I hunkered down in a spot that was kind of isolated.

A couple months later, COVID was going into effect; no bands were able to tour. And I said, “This is my opportunity. Now I’m going to do it.” And I called Matt to get me Gabriel Colón on the phone for me because I was going to start the album now. And then I called Kiko Shred in Brazil and said, do you want to do it? Kiko and I started working, and then I realized that Kiko was really a virtuoso type guitarist like Ritchie Blackmore and Yngwie Malmsteen, and they need a lot of spotlight for a lot of solo breaks. And I said, “Kiko, we’re not that kind of band.” So, that was the end of Kiko. But Kiko had turned me onto Marcus Dotta and Fabio Carito. So, I brought them in and then we started making arrangements. I had three songs that were ready to go from 2010. I had “Barbarians at the Gate,” “Sign of the Cross, and “Helsinki Nights” already written. So, I needed seven more songs. I hunkered down there in Cancun for about four months, doing nothing but writing songs. I didn’t even go anywhere. And then I had to discuss how we’re going to record, and the whole recording process going to Africa on the island of Cape Verde to record, which was going to be a huge headache. I didn’t realize how much of a nightmare it was going to be until we did it.

For the recording process, were you all together in the studio, or did everyone track separately in different studios and piece the files together?

We did most of the recording on Cape Verde. And after we did most of the tracks, we still needed to do a lot of overdubs. So we did a lot of overdubs at four different studios, one down in Orange County, one in New Jersey, one in Brazil, and then there was another place we did some remotes; I think it was in LA.

So, that took a while. After we had all the tracks, all the overdubs, I needed somebody to mix. So the first guy I called was Bill Metoyer because I worked with him in mid ’83 and I heard he was still active. And Bill and I always got along. So, I sent him “Stealin’ My Heart Away,” and he called me back to say let me do you a favor. This is a hit song. Let me call Whitesnake and some other major bands to have them record this, and you’ll make a shit ton of money on the royalties. I said, ‘No, I don’t want anybody else recording this song.’ I sent him “Barbarians at the Gate” to mix, and he took three weeks to mix it. He gave me all kinds of bullshit excuses about this and that. I said, ‘Bill, I don’t wait three weeks for mixing one damn song, you’re fired!’ And then I remembered Kiko had told me about a guy in Sao Paulo who does good mixes. So, I sent him “Stealin’ My Heart Away” to mix. The guy sent me back the mix in four days and it was great. I said, ‘Okay, you’re hired; how much money do you need?’ The guy said he needed 50% upfront. I said, ‘I don’t pay deposits. I only pay for finished work, ‘You’re fired!’

So, then I called Max Norman, because I loved what he did with Malice on License to Kill. Malice is one of my favorite bands of all time. James Neal is the greatest singer in the history of heavy metal, in my opinion. He wanted a lot of money. I could maybe get the money together, but I know Max Norman has a very strong personality, and I also have a very strong personality. And I was just having nightmares about working with him because I knew that within a few days, either Max would quit or I would fire him. So, I had to find someone else to mix it.

When did you get in touch with Roland Grapow (Masterplan, ex-Helloween) for the mixing and mastering?

I started looking around. I asked everybody I knew, and then Fabio said call Roland Grapow in Germany, and he’ll do it. So I called Roland, and he has a studio in Slovakia with all analog outboard gear and vintage mics from the ’80s. This guy has a museum. I told him I wanted to recreate 1978; there are three albums from Judas Priest that I want to recreate the ambience, Sin After Sin, Stained Glass, and Killing Machine. That’s the sound I want. And on the guitars, I want you to listen to “Chain Gang Woman” by Malice. That’s the guitar sound I want. And he said he could do it. So, I sent him “Rendezvous,” and he mixes “Rendezvous,” and he had it back to me in four days. And when I heard “Rendezvous,” I was blown away because the vocals on “Rendezvous” are very hard to mix. And he did an outstanding job on the mix. And those guitars on “Rendezvous” are just like “Chain Gang Woman.” He gave me a great price. It took us a while to mix because we still had a couple overdubs left on “Helsinki Nights;” that took a while. But Roland works very fast. He mixes all the songs in, like, four or five days each, which is unheard of. So, now I’m sitting there with a beautiful album with incredible mixes, and I said okay, now I gotta get me a record deal. I paid for all this shit myself; $40 grand, plus the Cape Verde bill, which I won’t even go into. We had some serious problems, but it was one miracle after another.

What’s next, including touring plans? What are you hoping to achieve and accomplish with Savage Grace, and how are you going to manage it and keep it going?

I’d like to keep us out for two years to support this record. The first areas we’d like to do are Mexico, Latin America, South America. And I’d like to do that this summer. Then I’d like to do Europe in the fall, and the U.S. next year. Now, of course, a lot of this depends on the success of the record. If the record doesn’t move, we’re going to be in trouble. But if the record does what I hope it does, then we’re going to have no problem booking tours and gigs. So right now, I’m doing as much press as I can to get the word out.

Sign of the Cross released May 5 via Massacre Records. Get the album here.