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You guys often write comments that are better than my actual posts, so I’m going to start featuring some of them here. That’s a threat, not a promise. Just kidding – I’ll ask your permission before I do so. “Austino” agreed to let me repost his comment in response to Mike Scalzi’s last column, Is there possible accounting for taste? In that column, Scalzi wondered what the deal is with extreme metal. Austino responds below. – C.L.
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While there are a handful of “extreme” metal bands that really are putting out progressive, original music, most are merely painting by numbers with no more sincerity or originality than the millions of pop punk bands that sprung up in the ’90s in the wake of Green Day and Offspring, or hair metal bands that exploded (and then imploded) in the ’80s.
The reality is that most genres exist because a very few bands did something original and interesting (those two things don’t necessarily go hand in hand) and then a hundred followed, copying merely the style and stagnating the scene. Most “black” or “death” metal bands have more in common with a secretary who dresses up like a slutty nurse on Halloween than they do with the pioneering groups they seek to so flawlessly emulate. They put on the clothes, they play the same riffs with the same tone, and get some guy to scream over the records (in a low voice for Death and a high voice for Black – that’s really ground-breaking) and, really, it’s just like putting on a costume.
The truth is that a great many people get into metal for the same reason that a great many jocks get into Creed. The desire to fit in is almost the same as the desire to not fit in. And extreme metal gives the listener the comfort, and an ego boost, in knowing that “others don’t ‘get’ this, I’m more extreme than those jocks who beat me up because I listen to Gothol’s Tomb and dress like Count Grishnakh” (never mind he was having a laugh). This is why so many fans turn on extreme bands whenever they earn even the slightest modicum of success. Suddenly they lose that exclusivity.
How many times have you heard someone crucify Cradle of Filth and call them sellouts, describe them as too commercial or berate their fans as trend followers? And how many of those same people have “The Trooper” as their ringtone? Somehow Cradle of Filth is a pop band and Iron Maiden retain their metal cred when objectively, Dani Filth’s vocals make Bruce Dickinson’s sound like Mariah Carey’s. If Maiden came on the speakers at my gym, nobody would bat an eye – however, if somehow “Her Ghost in the Fog” got through, you can bet people would actually stop working out and go to the front desk and complain. Isn’t that extreme?
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Cradle of Filth – “Her Ghost in the Fog”
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Now I’m not saying COF is a good band, or Maiden for that matter. I’m leaving the subjective out of this for right now. Objectively, the reason COF get stick from many fans is because a lot of people like them, and that is the antithesis of what many people who get into metal are looking for. They want something that no one likes, that they feel is their own, so that they can say “I get this and you don’t, and therefore I’m better than you.” For most humans, everything is driven by insecurity. And the same attitudes many extreme metal fans harbor have just as much in common with fundamentalist Christians or any other sect seeking something out to make them feel better than everyone else. The very idea that you are superior to someone because of some band you listen to is 1) absurd, 2) sound evidence you’re an imbecile, and most importantly 3) exactly the same sentiment behind sexism or racism.
Yet for a genre that is supposed to be “anti”, metal has just as many rules and trends as even the most extreme high school clique. I live in Phoenix, and there is a shop that sells metal records (and lame pentagram candles and incense and black t-shirts… one-stop shopping for your new identity). If I walk in wearing a Blind Guardian t-shirt (a band I truly love), I’m greeted with warm smiles and salutations… like Norm entering Cheers. However, when I enter wearing a suit because I’m off work, suddenly I get the evil eye from the staff and body language that more clearly delivers the message “Get out and fuck off” than the ghosts in that house from Poltergeist. Never mind that the same attitude that cultivated my taste in metal and led me down the path to Blind Guardiandom was also applied to my fashion. I’m wearing a Marc Jacobs suit – the Blind Guardian of men’s clothing – not some Men’s Warehouse parachute. There’s a reason that Nick Cave looks stylish in his suits and the Mighty Mighty Bosstones look like monkeys… and someone who seeks and studies good fashion will appreciate that difference, just the same way that someone who seeks out and studies good music can tell the difference between Six Feet Under and Opeth.
That attitude, pure, open-minded, art-seeking… or whatever you want to call it – that is what should be the common thread uniting fans of metal. And it should be applied to all forms of artistic expression, because goddamn it, life is boring and full of boring, derivative crap. I’ve heard many people praise metal for its breadth of styles. You have power metal, symphonic metal, black metal, death metal, doom metal, drone metal, thrash metal, sludge metal, NWOBHM, melodic Swedish death metal, and Manowar. And yet what are those genres if not 2 or 3 bands that originated the sound and then 100 that copied it to perfection. The reason these genres are so clearly defined is because the bands within them are so unoriginal. The labels that sign them realize that as long as they get the album art and logo right (and by that I mean copying what everyone else is doing), they can sell records because the fans will buy exactly what is put in front of them so long as it looks right.
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Blind Guardian, probably not wearing Marc Jacobs
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Some labels have even taken to reissue albums from the ’70s that have no association with metal whatsoever, re-branding and repackaging the music with new “metal” covers and then coloring the vinyl just enough to sell to die-hard metal collectors who don’t think twice ::cough:: Comus ::cough::
As a musician, I realize that with Guitar Rig, I could bang out 8 songs in any one of the aforementioned number [of] styles. Throw the appropriate drum beats on with my Drumkit from Hell (it was good enough for Devin Townsend even with Gene Hoglan on speed dial), and with one poorly lit photoshoot and the appropriate airbrushed art, a record deal from Rise Above or Southern Lord wouldn’t be far off. And yet I don’t. And until I cultivate an original sound, I won’t.
So are you not “getting” extreme music? No. And it’s not because you’re applying an outmoded model of analysis. It’s because you’re analysing it at all. It’s a trend, an element of a pre-packaged identity. And there’s nothing more to “get” than there is to understanding why ska fans “skank.”
Bands shouldn’t really fit into genres. They should just do what they do. The very nature of genre implies bands trying to sound alike, and that should be abhorrent. I’m interested in good bands. Bands that people respond to, at least enough to recommend to someone else. But when someone says, “You should check out this new wave of noise rock bands”, something’s wrong.
And BTW, Slough Feg is definitely an originator and not a follower.
PS. Please repress Ape Uprising and Traveller on vinyl.
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The idea that conforming to the specific traits of an established sub-genre can be compared to putting on a costume, is an enlightening one. That said, I don’t think it is that close to the truth; otherwise we would see many of these less original bands trying on different costumes – doing a metalcore record, then a grind record, then an attempt at doom-death. (Of course, some bands have done exactly this – but they’re not /that/ numerous!)
My main disagreement with Austino’s line of reasoning, though, is that it seems predicated on the idea of the select few heroic bands that blaze the trail into new, original areas of metal, leading the way for countless followers. The developmental history of the sub-genres we see today suggests that individual bands rarely achieve this feat by themselves. Instead, it is the combined exploration of a group of bands with overlapping intentions and, typically, some degree of cross-pollination that results in the opening of new tracts of ‘originality’.
To draw a hard line between those that truly assist in the development of original sounds, and those that aim to originate but fail, is a difficult task with little reward.
Blind Guardian is one of your favorite bands, your opinion is invalid.
Weird article. It does a good job of describing the narrow-minded attitude of some people (one that isn’t limited to metal or even music), then all of a sudden all “extreme metal” is lumped together for being a trend and a element of pre-packaged identity and I’m left wondering what is the author’s purpose. How do people who listen to extreme music as well as american folk and mainstream pop and jazz and hip-hop fit in this idea of extreme metal being a pre-packaged identity? The author aslo tells us that bands should do what they want to do. That’s great, but somehow this paragraph seems to imply that just because you can put a genre on a band’s music, then they’re only trying to fit in this genre. I don’t deny that it happens, but I don’t think “The very nature of genre implies bands trying to sound alike”. At the end of the day, I think overlooking a band’s music just because of which genres people use to describe it is just as narrow-minded an attitude as the ones displayed by the people in that Phoenix shop.
hey don’t you hate on blind guardian !
I suppose the author only listens to a dozen bands, everything else is a waste of time. Don’t know how he listens to Blind Guardian then, but I won’t go into his personal tastes. I just remember when they sounded like a copy Helloween, on those first albums at least.
I hang out on a couple of metal record shops and a lot of people wearing suits come in, I never saw anyone have a prejudicial attitude towards them, but then again I’m reaaalllly far away from Phoenix, being from Lisbon.
What really made me twist my nose, and pardon me if i’m being the fundamentalist one, is how I almost envisioned the author making love with his suit, at the store. I believe no one really cares what kind of suit he wears, or even if he wears one, but that whole suit discription really says a lot about his approach to “extreme metal”.
And it all seemed as him being the one thinking his music, his clothes and, ultimately, himself as being better than everyone else.
I agree with some of what Austino states, and vehemently disagree with some. Like with all “opinions” (you claim to be objective but, unfortunately, without any sound, empirical evidence, you are merely stating opinion), it bears a modicum of truth, but comes of as tautalogical preaching…
I always got the impression that when I band “didn’t want to be constrained by genres” they ended up sounding like Coldplay. Fuck that, metal is genre music par excellence and if people and bands can’t come up with something good, creative, and interesting using the fairly limited sonic palette available to them, that says more about their artistic and creative failings that it says anything about metal.
Just woke up, haven’t had my coffee, so excuse my infantile typing above.
It’s just me though, but Armani makes better suits than Marc Jacobs.
This is a bullshit post/article/sophomoric rant. That is all.
I agree with some of this, but I think the underlying tone for all good metal is looking for something HONEST. You have those who come from not so livelihoods and it’s a natural outlet of anger. Metal is anger. Definitely if you’re “in” a band.
What the final synthesis is depends on what you want that’s missing in your life…do you want majesty? Well there’s your majestic metal…do you want to tear down everything around you? you probably play black metal. Do you want to rebuild? You’ll go thru a symphonic black metal period.
When the conformity or “music snobbery” kicks in is when you have fans and/or bands (like the author states) who are there than for no other purpose BUT to fit in. They are not getting or giving anything out of it. And to that i say death to false metal.
Btw i wear sweaters with cats on them.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz……
Interesting article. Sounds like Ayn Rand applied to metal.
a record deal from Rise Above or Southern Lord wouldn’t be far off.
No, it wouldn’t. Rise Above and Southern Lord have become household names because of their quality control. Most of the music that these labels release is not original, but it is the best in the tradition of the (sub)genre, because of the craftsmanship of the bands on the songwriting or musical ability level (with the very song based genre of doom metal mostly the latter.) So you might be able to write some acceptable quality traditional doom, but it will not be at the level of e.g. Ghost or Witchcraft, so you won’t be signed by Rise Above. They receive hundreds of demo’s of doom metal bands and they only pick the very best.
What’s with the comment about “re-branding and repackaging the music with new “metal” covers” with regards to Comus in the article? The artwork on First Utterance has been “metal” since the album was first released in 1971.
Some labels have even taken to reissue albums from the ’70s that have no association with metal whatsoever, re-branding and repackaging the music with new “metal” covers and then coloring the vinyl just enough to sell to die-hard metal collectors who don’t think twice ::cough:: Comus ::cough::
Just so you know, there are a lot of fans of psychedelic folk music who really loved the Comus re-issue. Some of them like metal, most of them don’t.
I don’t like to think that all the wide forms of metal are just 2 or 3 genres that have been repeated by 100 different bands. Its a narrow minded view of the genres I feel. Sludge is nothing like black metal, even if you went far back enough to find bands that influenced both. And you will find examples of record labels signing bands based on their logo and or style rather than quality, but how bout Southern Lord, who’ve moved away from their more recognisable genre base into a more hardcore punk group. It’s good to see that some labels are willing to experiment with what they like, rather than with what will sell
I’m always a little baffled by these attempts to elucidate exactly what is wrong with metal, whether by this author or by Mike Scalzi. I mean, sure, there are a lot of crappy bands out there. And some crappy labels. And it is hard to go to shows without encountering at least a handful of idiots. And? Beyond that, well shit, there are so many great metal bands out there that they are putting a serious strain on my wallet, between buying albums and going to shows and buying the goddamn t-shirts because I always have to buy the goddamn t-shirts. Every single day of the week I could discover another fantastic band that I had never heard before, and I damn near do because I spend too much time at work reading Invisible Oranges and other blogs. So what is this fundamental problem that we need to solve? There will always be bands out there that you don’t like or that you think have low quality; they can’t be eradicated from the earth, but feel free to skip seeing/listening to them. I get bitter when a shitty metalcore band sneaks onto a bill that I otherwise want to see, but I’m lucky to be of an age where walking over to the bar and having a beer during their set is a perfectly acceptable alternative to actually watching them.
Shit, if you want to talk about problems, I’d diagnose the biggest problem in metal today to be the same problem that is plaguing all of music: no one wants to pay for albums anymore, and it is getting harder and harder for bands to make even a subsistence income playing the music that we want to hear. That is going to hurt us fans a hell of a lot more than snooty record store clerks in Arizona who don’t like your suit.
A few things: First, this was a good read. I agree with the main points (and hope most metal fans do too – it’ll help restore some faith I have for my fellow hessians).
However, “The very nature of genre implies bands trying to sound alike…” is a blanket statement, an assumption. I don’t think genres exist out of bands TRYING to sound alike – I think it exists as a side effect of bands sounding alike innately (influenced to n’th degree I’m sure, but not CONSCIOUSLY trying to sound like “so-n-so” and VIOLA a genre is born).
A good point that was brushed upon, but not thoroughly explored is how each genre “boom” has the originators and then the million imitators that spring up afterwards only to eventually implode. The implosion is the best part about it – it’s a self-cleaning side effect of the “boom”. The tried and true originators (and even some of the early adopters of a genre) can weather the storm of the glut of new bands springing up left and right. They’ll remain standing, while the imitators will die off. Like mentioned in the article, pop-punk bands by the boatload in the 90s, hair-metal in the 80s, heck even a good amount of hip-hop/rap imploded in the 90s too (I remember Mater P’s No Limit Records having new releases almost weekly before they imploded). It’s my belief that the new bands in any genre sharpen the originators’ wit and strengthens their resolve – those johnny-come-latelys serve an important, if not simultaneously annoying, purpose: to embolden those truly great genre pioneers and provide the self-cleaning benefit of any particular genre.
As a Comus fan for many years I too love that record, and long before it got that non-sensical rebranding from Rise Above.
And speaking of Rise Above, they’re one of my favorite labels–but for every Ghost or Electric Wizard there is an Astra or Gentlemen’s Pistols.
And speaking of Ghost, what’s the over/under on this being a secret supergroup of trad metal vets? No way a campaign that flawless came out of nowhere right?
And speaking of Rise Above, they’re one of my favorite labels–but for every Ghost or Electric Wizard there is an Astra or Gentlemen’s Pistols.
We can agree on that. But doesn’t that mean that you agree that their is more to good music than originality? That in fact very traditional/retro bands can be great?
And speaking of Ghost, what’s the over/under on this being a secret supergroup of trad metal vets? No way a campaign that flawless came out of nowhere right?
Word on the vine is that Ghost is a continuation of Repugnant side project Subvision. Their are striking similarities.
I’d like to thank GoatShark for single-handedly proving my point.
A) Record store clerks, and guys who work selling instruments by extension, are snooty. They are snooty cuz it’s the only thing in their world they control, and, as a consumer, you are below them.
B) I don’t buy the Creed argument. By that logic, every nerd shoulda been huge Oingo Boingo fans, which is not the case. A desire to ‘not fit in’ isn’t why I liked metal, nor was it for my friends–however, this was the early 80’s. I also liked Rush too, and Run DMC and N.W.A.
C) If I liked a band, I would trackback to the band’s influences, not forward. That led me to other bands and other genres (it’s often a great time, and a waste of time, to Google band photos of groups you like(d) and check out their T-shirts–more often than not, you’ll find a great band.)
D) I agree with the prepackaged aspect–so much so, that after years of consuming/listening, you acquire a sixth sense of how to separate wheat from chaff–crappy artwork, terrible name, etc. Regardless of genre. Packaging is now into overdrive cuz bands don’t make money like they used to–they have to have a glitzy attention getter to stand out. This creates a vicious cycle to outdo one another, a war of oneupmanship that the consumer loses (i.e. Boris).
E) I do agree music is music and art is art. It’s the reason I’ll watch Crazy Heart and then go home and listen to fuckin Repugnant–music is universal. It’s the social/cultural delineations that we have to make, and it’s beginnings are with punk for the most part. Even stand up comedy. With the death of independent radio, notions of individuality were replaced with robo DJ’s and innocuous playlists. Freeform withered. But you have to cater to an audience, albeit a “boutique” one. But you don’t have to buy into an audience.
This is all MUSC right? Man, I like music.
Reprinting this article was a complete waste of time! Scalzi’s was sufficient enough.
Honestly, I appreciate people’s differing opinions but I’m tired of mindless, biased “…bullshit post[s]/article[s]/sophomoric rant[s]” (to quote S.) that try to find out what is “wrong” with Metal as whole or try to superimpose ideas or an analysis of the “issues” that appear to be most prevalent in the ’scene’ or music industry today. Trying to understand the genre and its fundamentals, origins, and possible future paths or to reminisce on genre defining moments or even what makes certain bands stand out is alright, and can be outright fun, but ranting on what one likes or dislikes without considering the entire genre and all its individual parts and further grouping separate styles together to make a comparison without looking at all other styles (eg. Black and Death Metal) is ignorant. There are a lot of crappy bands out there, yes. There is also a few genres that are lack-luster perhaps, but regardless whether you’re a business executive who wears a suit and listens to Black Metal or a punk who listens to early Crossover and wears a mohawk and denim jacket is irrelevant. I mean who cares? Look, I love Iron Maiden but loathe Cradle of Filth. But I respect both bands, regardless of their originality or extremity. This is a personal opinion of mine based on my individual tastes. But I do not over analyze it. Metal is metal. I listen to the bands (and albums) that influence and move me the most. We all have different tastes. I didn’t get into this genre do to its extremity or to “fit in” some trend – I was born into it and I respect it all.
Sophomoric (someone beat me to it). Also, this seems to address subgenre purity much more than it does the notion of extreme metal (i.e. it would fit more with Cobbett’s two adjective metal than Scalzi’s “this isn’t even music!”).
Scalzi’s complaint (which this is supposed to address) echoes the sniveling of square America over rap in the 80’s, or rock in the 50’s, or jazz in the 20’s. Yes, “extreme metal” bands have a limited set of favorite devices, yes an emphasis is placed on pushing a limited set of envelopes instead of exploring new territory, yes it neglects or rejects traditionally important musical facets. Virgin listeners have no familiar hooks to grab onto, no I-IV-V chord progressions, no comfortable modes or scales, and this makes for an uncomfortable experience. However, it’s wrong to say that this isn’t music, or that you don’t see how this could be enjoyable, or that bands who use said devices and palettes are untalented and unoriginal.
These devices (blast beat, helicopter, palm mute, tremolo, pinch harmonic, death vox, etc) are the foundation that “extreme metal” artists work with, and the (sometimes subtle) variations and styles are what makes one record amazing and another forgettable. It’s the same principle that applies to Italian food, or wine, or kung fu movies. All these things have a fairly well defined palette and individual artisans are valued for their unique take on an established genre. They’re not pioneers and they don’t completely reinvent their craft with each release, and we wouldn’t want them to.
Posting a generalized rant reply to what was a generalized rant article does not make for reading.
Man, this is a weird post. I can’t say I agree with much of it at all. People who worry about the perceptions of others so much shouldn’t be calling those others “insecure” so much. Psychologists call this projection. Also, that “metal” cover of the Comus album, as was pointed out above, is the original album art. I’ve never seen Comus called anything other than prog or acid folk. Finally, I find genre art to be a lot of fun. It provides audiences with certain well-loved features, but it also allows artists to experiment with meeting or defying standard tropes and expectations, no matter if the genre is black metal, westerns, horror fiction, etc.
What Graeme and Dante said. Fuck.
This is a case of the comments being better than the post that garnered them.
I think JD has made the most valid point.
I have listened to some of the bands Scalzi mentioned that he does enjoy. They are metal in the traditional sense. Some, to an extent, come off as sounding cheesy to me. I recognize my perception as such may come from listening to extreme metal, although I am not certain. I enjoy many “traditional metal” bands… maybe I am the one not getting it. I do think that perhaps part of the issue for Scalzi with extreme metal is his application of “an outmoded model of analysis.” My passing familiarity with the bands Scalzi enjoys seems to support this.
Speaking of not getting it, I do not get Ghost and I enjoy many of their contemporaries as prescribed by genre defining. I have also heard they are directly linked to Repugnant and possibly Watain. They sound too contrived to me. Well polished and flawlessly marketed (except for their debut still not being available in the States). They played there second ever show after they landed their record deal with Rise above and recorded their full-length debut. Maybe Lou Pearlman has found himself a new market to exploit.
Lastly, many bands in a particular genre are there because A) they are doing exactly what they like and by extension emulating their favorite bands and B) they get put there by others. I have read countless interviews where bands either downright disagree with the genre they have been lumped into or detest being labeled at all, wanting NO part of it because of the limits imposed by genres.
They sound too contrived to me. Well polished and flawlessly marketed (except for their debut still not being available in the States).
What’s wrong with that? Making up an image and showmanship are essential parts of pop culture. Everybody does it, only in some cases (Watain, Ghost) it’s a bit more obvious than in others (Bruce Springsteen is a gazillionaire pretending to be an ordinary blue collar guy.)
I was just busting balls, I don’t mind Blind Guardian. But your example of Cradle Of Filth vs. Iron Maiden is fundamentally wrong. COF get a lot of flak not because they’re popular, but because they’re a prancing load of suck. Iron Maiden is not. Also, nobody ever said it was OK for Dani Filth to rip off Blackie Lawless’ image.
Metal as a mass movement, be it mainstream or underground, is astoundingly infantile. Not only it is infantile to defend fiercely the limits of a musical genre; it is absurd to try and act out, and assert in present day some values Medieval. Mind you, the Medieval times were by far not the ‘dark ages’ as which they are portrayed; ‘dark ages’ can more adequately apply to the utter “lack of comprehension” in today’s culture.
Halford sung in the mid 80s: “Bound to deliver as you give and I collect, squealing impassioned as the rod of steel injects”. A decade later, the metal community was shocked he ‘came out’ as gay.
I recently entered the forum of an extreme metal band. I was almost immediately attacked by the predominantly male members, who ‘accused’ me of being a ‘groupie’ – some photos of mine together with male musicians were available online, which automatically meant I had had sex with them. Furthermore, having sex with musicians was ‘dirty and disgusting’. The verdict was that I should be banned, and the jury consisted of the self-proclaimed hardcore fans of the band/musician in question, fans who has assumed the role of a ‘knighthood’ and ’secret police’ (by their own statement). There was an indisputable ‘argumentum ad populum’. It was further assumed that I was after having sex (“putting another notch on my belt”) with the musician they idolized, and hence he had to be protected by the brotherhood. Meanwhile, I also received warnings via private message, by male members, to “leave X. alone, you will never get into his pants”.
Let this raise perhaps more than one question.:)
Metal, to me at least, is an extreme, cathartic expression of deepest undeniable emotion. How many musicians today delve that deep? I can’t think of more than two. And even they should do well by distancing themselves from a fanbase which represents a community perhaps more brainwashed than any Evangelical church.
There are some highly intelligent fans and artists in metal, who carry the torch of extreme expression, self-exploration, sincerity, non-conformism.
As for the widely understood “metal brotherhood” – didn’t it consist of those blue-collar macho-types, raising their fists and roaring: “Jawbreaker!” at Halford’s barely-containable ironic giggle?
Ya’ll think too much.
how many times have I heard this …
Easy solution to all these problems: Listen to what you like and don’t worry about why you like it; don’t worry about what other people are listening to and don’t worry about why they like it.
The next time you are at a metal show, do an Exorcist-style 360 head spin and tell me what you see. I’m going to guess 99% of the people there will be dressed exactly the same, the only difference being the length of their chain wallets and the logos on their shirts (which will all nevertheless be black.) And you’re telling me this isn’t an identity package?
Now I’m not saying there are only 12 good bands, or that you the reader are one of these metal body snatchers, the fact that you’ve sought out a site like invisibleoranges.com is at least some indication that you think more than the average metalhead about the music you’re listening to. But really, why do so many metal fans look and dress alike, read the same books and subscribe to the same philosophy (Nietzsche seems to be the cause célèbre)? What does any of that have to do with the music?
A great band can have a genre label foisted upon them, but I believe that the bands I think are putting out the best music don’t think twice about what genre they are in, or how best they can fit within said genre.
Clearly at some point in Mikael Åkerfeldt’s career he realized that he could write/sing/play in the traditional 70s singer/songwriter style, traditional death metal style and the traditional prog rock style. At that point most people would have started 3 separate bands and probably done alright for themselves. Instead Mikael decided to somehow stitch these 3 disparate sounds into one and low and behold, created one of the most critically acclaimed bands of the past 20 years.
So why this fascination with genre? I think that Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds have a much more metal aesthetic than some black metal band who simply dress up like Emperor and tread the same lyrical and tonal path as the hundreds that have gone before them. Doesn’t Tom Waits’s “What’s He Building In There” haunt you more than anything The Haunted ever put out?
And speaking as a musician, once I stopped writing “thrash” songs or “stoner rock” songs or composing orchestral stuff devoid of guitar, bass and drums, I found the whole process became a lot more interesting and the end result more original.
But hey that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
PS. A subjective defense of Cradle of Filth. The riffs on “Midian” are outstanding. The production and incorporation of the symphony and choir on “Damnation & A Day” are flawless. Liv Kristine’s duet with Dani on Nymphetamine was suberb. Their live shows are a blast, combing Maiden-esque theatrics with demented vaudevillian flare of a “The Prestige” style magic show. How do you not dig this band?! Above all else, Dani’s lyrics are by far the most clever the genre has offered. Since I’m neither 12 nor Christian, sincerity is definitely the wrong tact to take for me with “satanic” lyrics. Dani’s densely verbose, ribald and riotous style masks his patient and meticulously strict patterns of rhyme. And unlike most of his peers, he does not simply screech out his words, but like Christopher Innvar or Till Lindemann he PERFORMS them.
They’re new record is epic and the production alone sets a new standard for “extreme” music. At least for those who actually want to advance past its weary lo-fi origins.
” “They sound too contrived to me. Well polished and flawlessly marketed (except for their debut still not being available in the States).”
What’s wrong with that? Making up an image and showmanship are essential parts of pop culture. Everybody does it, only in some cases (Watain, Ghost) it’s a bit more obvious than in others (Bruce Springsteen is a gazillionaire pretending to be an ordinary blue collar guy.)”
When I said contrived and polished I was talking about the music. I guess I wasn’t clear. As far as image goes…they wear costumes and their identities are “unknown,” it’s nothing new. And doesn’t make a difference for me one way or another. It’s the marketing strategy that resembles that of boy bands from eras past.
Don Giovanni’s finale is metal’s quintessence, all BM can go to hell.:)
Tom Waits…of course. And are there heavier pieces in popular music, than, say, “Dark was the night, cold was the ground” by Blind Willie Johnson, or “I’ll never get out of these blues alive” by John Lee Hooker…
Miles Davis reinvented jazz…how many times? Were there any complaints?:)
At the same time we have Frost of Satyricon trying to explain, over and over again, what needn’t be explained…
“Black metal a music genre that’s creative itself, it’s very open; it’s not really defined by strictly musical technical characteristics, it’s defined more by the atmosphere, the moods, the vibes. And basically, that gives a certain freedom to musicians of our genre. You could mix in lots of elements. Of course, for it to be black metal, there should be dominant metal elements, but apart from that you are very free to bring in elements from all different sorts of music, bring in unconventional instruments, and you could go as far as making almost purely electronic or drone-based music and still call it black metal, because it still adds to the metal and evidently it comes from there. There’s a danger in that as well, because it might lose all contact with its origins and the roots. Usually it’s very important to have a strong touch with the roots, as well as developing and bringing the whole genre further, which is what we do; but no matter what, I think that this kind of creativity and the openness that I see at the bottom of the genre, is a very good thing, even if it is misunderstood and misused by lots of bands.”
“I think that so many people have misunderstood what black metal is all about. It seems to me that many people are lacking a sense of history, lacking an understanding of where it comes from, what are its musical roots, and what is really the essence of the genre. I think it has to be understood that the genre was born by really creative, innovative artists, and those brought a lot of avant-garde elements into it, and created black metal as a musical arena for very dark ambiance but also for lots of creativity in a musical genre that’s defined by its moods and atmospheres rather than strictly technical musical definitions. You can base the music on thrash metal or death metal or heavy metal or rock’n'roll or whatever, and it can still belong to the same genre. The focus point has to be the atmospheres that it brings, and that gives a certain freedom. But there’s also a trap there, and I think too many people have been falling into the trap; they think they want to do this black metal thing, and all they manage to focus on, is the imagery and superficial elements, not really the core elements of the genre. What was mainly there to create contrast, suddenly becomes main ingredients – melodies, harmonies, female vocals, synthesizers, orchestral arrangements and all that kind of thing that isn’t really core elements of the genre. It was brought to create contrast, only because there was room for it.”
“I think that Satyricon has a pretty mixed crowd, because Satyricon really is very diverse. I know that we appeal to lots of different people, since you can enjoy Satyricon as a very raw and intense rock’n'roll band, and you can enjoy it for its progressiveness, for the experimental side of the band. I know many people that are simply music lovers without really having any particular preferences, a belonging to any kind of style, that love Satyricon for the sheer musicality. They find something very real, something authentic, a very strong nerve and energy in Satyricon, which is something they appreciate a lot. And that tells me that our crowds must be really mixed as well.
But certain places I guess that we attract more conservative metal crowds, since metal itself is a very conservative kind of music. That’s all there’s been. You can love it or hate it, but that’s really the way it is. It’s harsh sometimes to try to go across boundaries.”
I’d have loved to have been in the practice space to hear this type of conversation between Mike Scalzi and John Cobbett.
Ah, the truth comes out. I knew it. Trying to mount a defense of those COF poofters sealed the deal.
Chain wallets? Really? Are you going to Korn concerts in 1998?
It seems more and more likely you don’t even listen to “extreme” metal, or know very little about it.
1) I got a Marc Jacobs overcoat last week, so I think we can agree that we both have above-average taste in clothing.
2) You are a dildo. You know what is just as annoying as the ‘metaller than thou’ people who scowl down from their 300 lb overweight high horse? The meta-’metaller than thou’ guy who looks down from their even higher horse at all of those people who aren’t smart enough to be as self-aware as you so obviously think you are. Congrats, you are less dumb than some poor sap who identifies so strongly with embarassing white people music that they shun everything that isn’t it. Your prize is that you get to immortalize your smugness on the internet with a long winded, self-aggrandazing rant. Asshole.
“if somehow “Her Ghost in the Fog” got through, you can bet people would actually stop working out and go to the front desk and complain. Isn’t that extreme?”
Extreme…….uhm sure. Personally, I find COF extreme in being ridiculous.
I’ll take quality over originality any day of the week.
Quality IS originality.
Lots I disagree with here, but I have but one thing to say.
I work out to Fates Warning and Manilla Road. That is all.
Holy fuck, what metal shows are you going to? Chain wallets?
he’s going to Cradle of Filth shows, duh.
wanna see a wallet chain? how about a few thousand of em? go to a Slayer show.
also, this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDhISoln64
the above debate is retarded, btw. austino gets it half right, but derails hard halfway through the ‘article’.
Precisely why I go to Slayer shows few and far between. Most of my metal comes from people who don’t sell gold records, so I have the good fortune of being able to avoid that brand of clientele.
MacMurdo, you gotta be one of my favorite commenters now. (hearted)
+1000 W A MacMurdo
I’m too lazy to read through all these posts but I just wanted to say that I don’t understand people’s hate for genres and how every single band must be a unique shining snowflake.
The former is just silly. If I’m trying to tell my friend who doesn’t know metal what the difference between St. Vitus and Darkthrone is, if he wants to check out more bands that sounds like either of those bands, what am I supposed to say? These bands are both metal but are very different. Genres serve a purpose.
As for the latter, I beliebe people who don’t want to emulate SOMETHING are dispassionate and uninspired. You’ve never heard a record and thought, “Oh fuck! I want to do THAT!” Its like having an epiphany or something. Sure that might be “derivative” but a sound can always be improved or incorporate other styles. If music is good, it makes you want to make more of it.
I don’t remember where I heard it but someone once said “Good rock n roll makes you want to pick up a guitar and make some noise”. Does any of thise really matter if everyone’s having fun?
MacMurdo for the win! Fucking awesome. I saw Watain last night. Are they derivative? Abso-fucking-lutely. Are they silly? Definitely. Did they put on one of the best and, dare I say, FUN metal shows I have ever seen (of course, they would never use that word)? You bet your ass they did. Like them or not, they work really hard on crafting memorable (awesome) tunes. They work equally hard on their silly image. If the former wasn’t there, they’d be a band I absolutely hate. But I love them and their silly antics because it is, on the whole, a pretty awesome package. And if I actually did an “Exorcist-style 360 head spin” my fucking neck would snap and I would die. Instead, I looked around. Yep, lots of black tee’s with logos. You got that right at least.
Some people have said made some insightful comments here, while others have given nothing beyond immature and stupid remarks.
As for the author’s article, I agree with parts of it and disagree with others. Yes, in general the truly exceptional artists within a genre (in that genre by choice or by the classification of someone else) are small. In general I would say anywhere from 5 to 15 artists from whatever subgenre of Metal can be called original (same might be said of artists in any sub-genre of rock music and I have not much ground to say if that’s the case with any other music). In time then come copy cats and artists that are little more than tributes to these originals, with at best occasional moments or a couple artists who can do something a little bit different (and not to long after even they’re copied). I would say this isn’t necessarily a bad thing in the sense that it’s impossible to avoid.
The stance of the author seems to suggest that only avant-garde artists should be supported. Those artists who continually push boundaries or defy classifications. To this I strongly disagree, even though I enjoy many things that might be called avant-garde (well, at least when they came out). There is nothing wrong in wishing to adhere to a tradition, rather more often then not this is a good thing. Music and all art are always a part of culture and it is through culture that we define, in part, who we are (what we believe, what we enjoy, what we are passionate for and who we will associate and to what degree). Culture is inescapable and since culture is always in a network of many people, it’s impossible to be so culturally unique that one is absolutely void of some level of conformity . The only way that can occur is if you’re isolated from society, create some artistic artifact and then destroy it before anyone can bring it back to society. There is no means then to not conform to some degree. The rather sad thing is certain people who struggle so much to not conform when at some level it’s also going to happen. I imagine people get wrapped up so much in this because it can seem like something is non-conformist/anti-group/anti-culture when something is so unknown and unpopular that only a few people care for it. But that is still a conformity occurring, which even by these words used sounds like a bad thing, but it’s not…. a conformity means you’re participating in something cultural, in tangent with others. So while only 25 people like some noise-jazz-metal-tambourine-stripper pole dance music, they’re no less guilty of being at the whims of a community for the simple fact that there’s more than one participant.
Sure, there’s an irony in that all metal fans want to be ‘different’ from so called ‘regular folk’ and therefore all dress in the same style, but at the same time it creates a kind of unconscious bond between us all. You walk past metal folk in the street, and you both nod in unity, even when you don’t know each other. I agree that quality is better than originality, but to be honest, quality in metal these days is quite original. And who cares if there’s too many Darkthrone or Slayer clones, they’re fucking good bands and sounds. We should support bands that are willing to make something for us, whether its totally our taste or not. Otherwise those truly awesome bands that appear through the masses will never make it, and we’ll be left with a lot of average music in our old age
@ TheWolf – There needn’t necessarily be a dichotomy tradition/originality. Not at all. (The term ‘avant-garde’ is too complex to be interpreted here, hence as ‘avant-garge’ I shall understand the artists at the forefront of the genre, namely the original ones.) We arrive at the need for authenticity, which is perhaps what metal is all about. If you want to scream out your deepest torments, you gotta do it sincerely, authentically. Nowhere are technical genre restrictions more ridiculous, than they are in metal.
Very nice Macmurdo, well put
Austino,
you must be excited for blind guardian next friday. as far as i have been a fan, i don’t believe they have ever played Arizona.
There is no way you can do original music any more. Not really. You can either do cross-over between different styles or you can do what others have already done (sometimes even do it better).
That’s it.
This “analysis” of metal is just commentary on human behavior and tendencies towards arts and entertainment. Does anyone really think that there is any other genre, music, art form, or entertainment that DOESN’T eventually experience this stuff?
I agree with whoever debunked the Iron Maiden and COF example. People rag on COF because they suck – or in technical terms, there’s apparently some rather universal objective indicator in their vibe that in some way they’re trying too hard. Whereas you see Iron Maiden, albeit a lighter and “cheesier” band on paper, but there’s something about their delivery that communicates sincerity and belief in their imagery, lyrics, etc.
I mean, you can’t measure it and demonstrate it but sincerity is perhaps the most powerful guarantee of some form of “quality” to someone’s ears. People can sniff it out like animals.
I loathe deathcore/metalcore/etc. but when it comes down to it, there are tons of bands who have put sacrificed everything in their lives to play that shit to crowds. I’ll argue that it’s misguided puke until I’m blue in the face, but even within those horrible genre confines there are people who mean it and people who fake it – i.e. there’s the “good stuff from a horrible genre” (that I don’t like) and the “terrible stuff from a horrible genre” (that I also don’t like). Some young metalcore kid STARTED with this shit as his jump-off point, and chances are he likely responds more to the “good” (i.e. sincere) shit.
It’s all about sniffing out whether the people who are entertaining you are doing so because they really really want to. The rest of the complaints about fundamentalism and conformity are just obvious.
What would be REALLY fun to read is a column listing the “tribal” distinctions made by metalheads attending shows and evaluating all the shirts/patches that people wear, and evaluating the combinatorial values of people’s clothing. For example, the likelihood that someone will superficially respect or even acknowledge a guy at MDF wearing a Cannibal Corpse shirt compared to the respect accorded to a guy wearing a Rottrevore shirt.
@David – apparently, you have not clue what “original” means.
It means authentic, potent, coming from the heart.
When the moment comes art can’t be original anymore, it would mean we’re dead.
Enough of the “there’s no originality left in music” meme already. Originality is dead. Has been for decades. Who cares. Get over, move on, and just support the fucking bands you like personally.
poster comes correct (by and large). fear of some imaginary depersonalized other has been holding even the very best “metal” back for decades now, imo. either way, far as i can tell, it stands to reason that there is much to be gained by immersing yerself in even the most stringently hated “mass popular (oogga-boogga, herberts!) culture.” and likewise little profit in burying yer head in the sand, ostrich-style, and pretending that the great evil world at large cannot touch you or yer music, man. truth be told, the man busted yer music ages ago, and ya hardly even noticed (tsk). now get over it, and get on with living yer damned lives as the responsible, sensible citizens i know y’all innately can/must(?) be.
in short pants: i’m personally far more impressed with engagement than i am with disengagement, re: society/culture/the WORLD at fucking large. but, then again, i’m crazy like that. i mean, i dig Lady Gaga and M.I.A. and Kanye West, so what the fug do i know?
ps hail Satan!
I think it’s defeatist and unrealistic to say with certainty that there is no originality possible in music anymore. Things take time, and the latter half of the 20th Century has been sort of like musical evolution on fast-forward, which has given us who know no other way unrealistic expectations about the speed at which innovation occurs. Just because nothing new has arisen in the last decade or two (an easily refutable stance in itself), does not mean that nothing new can ever happen again.
genre (on this level) is a kind of folk taxonomy. and it’s useful as hell sometimes.
i’ll translate the article: i’m pissed the kinda hot goth chick behind the counter at my favorite metal shop didn’t like my suit.
“And BTW, Slough Feg is definitely an originator and not a follower.”
I like this unsubtle sucking of Scalzi’s dick.
The next time you are at a metal show, do an Exorcist-style 360 head spin and tell me what you see. I’m going to guess 99% of the people there will be dressed exactly the same, the only difference being the length of their chain wallets and the logos on their shirts (which will all nevertheless be black.) And you’re telling me this isn’t an identity package?
You can do that at any show of any ‘genre’. Go to a punk show, hardcore show, Oi show, hip-hop show, country show…all you’ll see is a lot of people looking the same. All these music communities serve the purpose of bringing people that have at least a few like-minded interests together and fulfilling what is essentially an instinctual urge to be part of a group, or tribe even. The same could be said about people who join scrapbooking clubs, or amateur sports leagues. Everyone wants to be a part of something that gives them that sense of community.
This was a horrible article and a massive waste of time. The author thinks he thinks of things no one else ever has and sucks at listening to metal.
I am going to steal the ‘one-stop shopping for a new identity’ line for use in future conversations
It’s funny how I think basically the same thing the whole time I’m at Maryland Death Fest… Everyone’s all like “I have this t shirt of a band you’ve never heard of so I’m more underground than you”… And I know people who say my taste in metal is too commercial, because, GASP, it has production values…
Fuck off. I love the line about Cradle being played at the gym! My work out would get way better!