. . .
One of my favorite parts of Office Space is when the consultants named Bob talk to the character named Michael Bolton. The Bobs are smarmy douchebags; naturally, they love the singer named Michael Bolton. One of them says, “I celebrate the guy’s entire catalogue”. That line has haunted me for years.
So I was thunderstruck to see Josh Haun use it when discussing his status as Danzig’s #1 fan. That takes cojones. Mr. Haun is willing to defend every piece of music Danzig has ever done. That includes “slow song Danzig”, “dance club Danzig”, and “way-too-tight mesh shirt Danzig”. As I said, balls the size of church bells.
Of which metal artists do you celebrate the entire catalogue – against all good sense? You can’t be too cool for school and name bands with perfect records. You don’t get any points for celebrating Nasum’s entire catalogue, because they never screwed up. You do get chutzpah points, however, for sticking with Metallica through thick and (lots of) thin. Or supporting Celtic Frost so faithfully that you would wear a giant Cold Lake backpatch. Or publicly defending Blaze Bayley-era Iron Maiden. You get the gruesome picture.
For me, two bands can do no wrong, despite clear evidence to the contrary. The first is Prong. What’s that, you say? Nu-metal? La la la, I can’t hear you! The second is Darkthrone. Yes, I will stick up for the later stuff, the never-ending conveyor belt of lo-fi “metal punk”. Admittedly, sometimes I want to tell Fenriz, “Could you guys at least try a little? Maybe spend more than two days on an album? Or at least as much time on the music as on the liner notes?”
But, yes, that’s me buying my one CD a year, which is always the new Darkthrone CD. It’s because of the damn liner notes. At this point, the music has almost become bonus material. If Darkthrone were a hip-hop duo, they’d be FNCMD: Fenriz and Nocturno Culto Making Dollars. My dollars. I practically have them on retainer.
Until Metallica released Death Magnetic I could have said that without any doubt. I mean, Load and Ride the lightning are, in my opinion, their best albums, and it wasn’t until they tried to do something that doesn’t suit them at all anymore that they failed. Miserably. I won’t fight over this, but I’m glad to see how some people even get in an endless rage mode just because me or my girlfriend as well defend Re-Load as a great album. It’s hilarious, man.
Oh, my girlfriend will probably stand for Blaze-era and for Ripper-Judas-era as well, by the way.
I celebrate the entire catalogue of Galactic Cowboys, that Texas band who split some years ago. I don’t know why, it’s just a gut feeling I have with their tongue-in-cheek, yet somewhat powerful style. Love every single album they released.
For me, as far as, “against all good sense,” would have to be Mastodon. I have yet to hear the new Jonah Hex EP and that’s been getting a fair amount of bashing. But even though I’ve only heard some clips I’d be willing to defend it. Another band for me would be Zao. Yep, even Scott Mellinger clean-vocal Zao.
this is a funny thought… i guess there is no metal band or artist i would go for the whole catalogue against all good sense. celtic frost, maybe, but i’m definitely not man enough to wear the cold lake back patch outside of my appartment.
for me, motörhead is very close to be the band. there is some crap in the 80s or 90s but over all… (to be honest, there are two albums, i never bought and even as a super cheap package (both for € 9,00) i couldn’t do it for the sake of lacking space at home).
Black Sabbath – I’ll even try and defend Forbidden….
Slayer – I don’t think they ever scored below a 7.5.
Metallica – with some caveats: the best tracks of Load and Reload should have been selected to make one great album instead of a good and a decent one, the lyrics on St. Anger and Death Magnetic can be annoying at times, but all these albums are at a level most bands can only dream about. The real dark period is the era between Load and St. Anger, when because of Hetfield’s alcoholism they didn’t create any songs and made released the cover album and the collaboration with the orchestra. But even that stuff is decent enough.
Anthrax – There are better and worse Anthrax albums, but no really bad ones.
But the one which with I can really drive people crazy is my love for The Haunted in general and Peter Dolving-fronted The Haunted specifically. Slaughter of the Soul has nothing on rEVOLVEr or even on Versus.
I celebrated the entire catalogue of Josh Homme until his band put out Era Vulgaris. And well Wretch kinda suck too, but sometimes that’s not counted as a Kyuss album. Usually, I only like bands for about three albums, then I lose all interest because their sound has morphed so much. Musicians like to say that’s evolution, but I don;t think that’s the case in most instances.
Unlike most thrash bands (Exodus’ Force of Habit, Testament’ The Ritual), I’d say Death Angel never put out a real stinker. But I wouldn’t celebrate their entire catalogue.
Napalm Death. Many hate the mid-90’s stray from grind, but I still own Greed Killing and the like.
I could almost say Slayer, but Undisputed Attitude is so, so bad. So I guess for me it’s gotta be Napalm Death. There’s not one bad record in their entire catalog. Even (hell, especially) Diatribes. I love the experimental dub-metal sound they went for on that record. And every single Motörhead album has four to five great songs, and a genuinely bad Motörhead song is a rare thing indeed. So they’re right up there, too.
I have the entire Judas Priest and Iron Maiden catalogs in my iPod, except for the Ripper and Blaze albums. So with those major caveats, I’ll stick up for those bands, too – yes, including Nostradamus. I like Nostradamus. It’s got peaks and valleys, but its peaks are fucking glorious.
Would Opeth work here? I know there are some people out there who can’t stand them.
I’ll shoot for King Diamond as well.
I’m glad to see my Office Space referrence didn’t go unnoticed! That is my favorite scene from the movie as well.
If you take Danzig’s entire body of recorded work into account (Misfits, Samhain, Danzig), he’s got an album to suit just about any mood, not to mention the fact that he has probably 6 or 7 perfect records under his belt. How many other artists can say that?
Even his flawed albums, like Blackacidevil, have some great songs like “Sacrifice”, “Ashes” and “Serpentia”. The cover version of “Hand of Doom” is pretty damn awesome too.
A lot of artists have come and gone in the 15 or so years i’ve been listening to heavy music, but it seems like I’ve always been listening to Danzig in some shape or form. For that (and many other reasons) I will defend him to the death.
Cosmo, I agree with you 100% about Darkthrone also. However, I would like to hear more about your love for Prong.
Gojira, what do I win?
Mine is Slayer. I own every album, and even though I didn’t particularly like Diabolus In Musica, I can go with what Josh said in that even that had some great songs on it – ‘Bitter Peace’ and ‘Love To Hate’ in particular.
At the moment the one I defend against all logic, and indeed my friends’ tastes, is Hatebreed. I own all their albums – though not their EPs – and even though they’re not doing anything particularly new, or innovative, their songs seem to work for me whenever – songs like ‘A Call For Blood’ do wonders for my mood after a shitty day. Nobody I know gets them, but I seem to find a certain fire in the majority of their stuff – I wasn’t even particularly struck on ‘The Rise of Brutality’, but I still thought the majority of it was solid.
I suppose this isn’t a particularly controversial choice, but I’m willing to defend basically anything Devin Townsend has ever done (with the small caveat that I haven’t heard his Punky Brüster record).
I know a lot of folks weren’t down with Ziltoid, and the first Strapping Young Lad record catches a lot of shit, plus then you’ve got his two solo ambient albums (“Devlab” and “The Hummer”), but I’m willing to stand by all of that. Dude’s pretty much one of the most broadly talented people currently working in metal.
I mean, shit, I’ll even put up with Steve Vai’s nonsense for Devin’s sake on “Sex & Religion.”
I celebrate In Flames’ entire catalog. I can’t seem to find any allies on that choice. Very uncool, I suppose. I also celebrate all of Soilwork’s catalog, but that seems less offensive to folks than In Flames.
Megadeth. It’s hard to admit this, but I still listen to ‘Risk’ and ‘Cryptic Writings’ on occasion, and generally enjoy them…
“Napalm Death. Many hate the mid-90’s stray from grind, but I still own Greed Killing and the like.”
Absolutely, that was the first band I thought of. Also, Entombed and Pestilence.
This is the best part from the link to the Celtic Frost backpatch: “Vintage sew-on screen printed Celtic Frost Backpatch as worn on jackets throughout the world.” Oh yeah, all those jackets with Cold Lake patches throughout the world?
I kind of disagree with you about Darkthrone though. Musically, I like metalpunk Darkthrone more I like black metal Darkthrone. I’m not sure that “musically” is the right word there, because it’s not just the music I really like, it’s that later Darkthrone is one of the least-bullshit things I’ve ever heard. They do not give a fuck whether or not anybody will listen to them, they’re just going to make the music they want to make, and you can get fucked if you don’t like it. I wish more bands had that kind of attitude.
Woody Allen.
More hard rock than metal, I guess, but I celebrate Thin Lizzy’s entire catalogue, even their lesser-regarded early-80s stuff.
And while I wouldn’t exactly stick up for Blaze Bayley-fronted Iron Maiden, I think both _The X Factor_ and _Virtual XI_ are better albums than _No Prayer for the Dying_. The latter has always sounded to me like Iron Maiden trying to be Motley Crue.
I’d say Death and Enslaved, although I ~prefer~ both of their later periods of output. But I could stand by all of it proudly. I think that is all. Oh, wait… ther is one more [gulp]…
…Cradle of Filth. Sorry everyone. I like all of it with the exception of their “remix” songs. Early / mid-period stuff is better, but I still have plenty of their recent stuff on frequently-played gym mixes. But I don’t think I’d sport a Thornography backpatch. It would detract from my Nymphetamine neck tattoo.
Crap is crap. No other way around it.
+1 for Napalm Death as well. I still listen to Inside the Torn Apart and Words from the Exit Wound on a fairly regular basis.
My “too cool for school” pick would be Enslaved.
Cosmo, I seem to remember you hating on Prong’s Rude Awakening some time ago… did you have a change of heart recently?
Pig Destroyer are a band that comes to mind.
I really want to play but I’m horribly picky and really not sentimental enough. I don’t even consider the entirety of Burzum as perfect… Here’s a few ‘controversial’ truths right off the top of my head though:
Traced in Air is an excellent album.
Somberlain and Storm of the Light’s bane are inferior to the might of Reinkaos.
Unholy Cult sports a laughably bad production and so does Harnessing Ruin.
I too would say Darkthrone but I actually think that all of their music is pretty accessible to most metalheads. I can easily defend all Radiohead, RATM, and Deftones but I’m not sure if others would agree they fall into this category
I have 3 for y’all.
Ozzy: just love his voice – even when’s over 60 years old
Napalm Death: my number one favorite band. I agree there were a few duds in the 90s, but since Enemy of the Music Business came out, they have been on fire.
Faith No More: god I love them. And despite the press and most lame American fans that only wanted “Epic” over and over, every album that followed The Real Thing was great. Angel Dust was my favorite.
Entombed. Without a doubt. I cherish everything they’ve put out. They’ve got a swagger which I find endlessly charming. I love when an artist is restless with what they’ve created and can’t help but attempt new ideas. Unfortunately, it feels like they stagnated in the wrong place. Why re-do Uprising, and Morning Star when you could be stagnating on the first two? I think it’s time for them to wholeheartedly return to the first two. That would be nice. But I’ll stick with them no matter what.
Darkthrone. I’ve only been listening to them for about three years. I started at the beginning (well, the black metal beginning) and have been slowly moving through their discography in microcosm. I’m up to Ravishing Grimness. I skipped ahead last year and bought DT & BF and then Circle the Wagons when it came out. With all of the Darkthrone slagging I was surprised at how much I’ve liked everything I’ve heard. I even dig the last two. I kinda put those records next to Bone Awl. Anyway, I’m glad I still have a handful of Darkthrone records to work through.
The Melvins. Remove all of the weird records and they still have one of the more impressive discographies of all time. Part of loving The Melvins is learning to appreciate their more experimental side. Allow yourself to be the butt of their jokes and it’s suprising how much fun you’ll have.
Napalm Death. Their bad stuff is not really that bad.
Opeth is probably the first that comes to mind.
I want to be able to say Megadeth, but I can’t even bear to have Risk in my library, let alone listen to it. For all the flak that Cryptic gets, I actually like it quite a bit, way more than The World Needs a Hero. Risk though… just can’t do it.
I was going to say Death too – they didn’t put out too too many albums, but there is enough of a progression between their earlier and later work that I think they qualify. Not a dud in the bunch.
How about Katatonia – while they’ve put out a few albums that are on the dull side, they’re still far from unlistenable.
My vote for non-metal would be Fugazi.
None. Even Fates Warning have a couple of records that I do not listen to almost ever.
Iron Maiden! They’re my favorite band, and my least favorite album, No Prayer for the Dying, still has about five songs that I think are great. So yeah, there’s no such thing as a band who have been around for any significant length of time and never written a bad song, but for me, Iron Maiden comes the closest.
And fuck you and all your Blaze-hatin’ commentary, this isn’t the first time, Cosmo. Have you HEARD Sign of the Cross? Or Futureal? Complete opposite sides of the Maiden spectrum and among the best of each. Shame on you.
“Part of loving The Melvins is learning to appreciate their more experimental side. Allow yourself to be the butt of their jokes and it’s suprising how much fun you’ll have.”
I agree with that. I actually listen to _Prick_ from time to time (though almost never _Colossus of Destiny_). My favorite Melvins albums tend to be those that strike a balance between experimental weirdness and rock (e.g., _Stag_, _Honky_, _Electroretard_, _Pigs of the Roman Empire_). I even kind of like the recent “remix” album, though I’ve probably only listened to it a half-dozen or so times. Defintely a band whose entire catalogue I celebrate, and one of the few bands whose entire catalogue I own.
Tool
Opeth
Iron Maiden is my 1st metal love, but I guess I have to disqualify them because in my opinion everything from ‘No Prayer..’ until Bruce returned for ‘Brave New World’ was terrible.
Also, and this might be sentimental at moment, but how about Ronnie James Dio? He had a few clunkers in his various bands, but his body of work is pretty impressive!
Disembowelment.
But no…probably Morbid Angel? I like all of their albums and Trey is probably my favorite guitarist when it comes to metal. Joy Division is another one, Bauhaus, Brighter Death Now, I love all the Deathspell Omega stuff, I don’t think Deutsch Nepal have released anything I haven’t sought out eagerly…Inquisition never really disappoints me although there are a couple of songs I could do without if I had to, Sacramentum never lets me down, Skepticism is always amazing, The Birthday Party, The Misfits, etc.
Oh, and Godflesh…I always forget…I love every one of their releases.
I suppose they’re only quasi-metal, but I’ll throw in my lot with Ireland’s THERAPY?. Most of us got on the boat about 1993 with their Troublegum record, and the band hit their commercial peak in North America around 1994/5 – but then most people over here forgot about them (even though they continued to put out better records after their ‘peak’). And the band’s making the most remarkable/relevant records of their career this decade.
If only they’d tour Stateside (Canadaside?) one last stinking time!
Lot of good picks here in the comments! Also, kudos to Josh’s Danzig article as well, it was a fun read.
Dokken. If the answer wasn’t restricted to metal, I could easily answer Husker Du. And Morrissey.
I still have a number of holes in my Melvins catalog because I’m saving them for a rainy day. (There’s something very comforting in knowing I could put on a fresh Melvins album at any time.) So I’ve only digested two of your picks. Prick is actually almost defensible. Pigs of the Roman Empire is mighty! I’ve got to get into Lustmord.
One of my favorite Melvins is Hostile Ambient Takeover. I’ve heard it criticized a lot, which I don’t get. It’s brilliant!
And Gluey Porch Treatments, Lysol, & Bullhead should all be considered mandatory.
I give credit Slayer for helping me maintain a certain level of “metalness” during the years I fell off the metal wagon. I can still listen to Diabolus En Musica and Got Hates Us All without feeling uncomfortable.
I can’t say the same for Metallica though, just hearing St. Anger makes me want to cry like Travis Terror Teenage Thrasher.
I could definitely stick by Celtic Frost. I’m a big Celtic Frost fan, saw them twice, had Tom G. Warrior and Martin Eric Ain sign some of my Celtic Frost cd sleeves. I trolled Ebay for a decent copy of Cold Lake (only set me back $40!) and I can still listen to Vanity/Nemesis aka Celtic Frost sounding like Coroner at times.
Demilich
Coroner. They never lost their identity, ever, even while undergoing considerable stylistic change.
Atheist’s current catalogue rules. I don’t wanna hear any shit about Elements– not their best, but a great album given its circumstances. Stoked for the new one.
Bolt Thrower! Total given. I don’t listen to the first three records as much as I should, but they’re still awesome.
Ludicra are not only one of the best bands going, but have also never made a remote misstep.
Agalloch, like Ludicra and Coroner, manage to make different albums that are their own unique entities, but still sound like the band.
OASIS. unfuckwithable. i stand behind every single note they’ve ever recorded. and they’ve got a MONSTER of a back catalog.
i agree 100% w/ Darkthrone, and i think their newest record is their best by a long shot.
@DieByTheChord Yeah you raise a good point about World Needs A Hero…I prefer Cryptic Writings to that one as well, but I think it gets more credit (or at least less shit) for being a step back toward “metal” after Risk, which is why I didn’t mention it at first. It’s pretty boring, a sterile mix of radio rock and ‘thrash’ but I’ll still stick up for the cheesy stuff: ‘Moto Psycho’ ‘Promises’ and the most unnecessary sequel ever, ‘Return to Hangar.’
I love every Candlemass album and all four vocalists. From the 13th Sun is awesome and so is Death Magic Doom. I also like every Maiden album to a degree – although I may skip tracks on Virtual IX and X Factor. Unfortunately I have a feeling that Final Frontier is going to be bad.
Alex,
I’m stunned to find a fellow Oasis fan here. I’m a huge fan. I am well acquainted with their entire catalog. Although I confess to enjoying their entire catalog, it is far from unfuckwithable.
The first two records… sure. After that, I could write pages of reasons why everything else is spotty. Lucky for them, they are one of those bands made up of very interesting people, and that carries them a long way. Plus, I could listen to Liam sing a Celine Dion song and still admire his voice.
Please, try to defend “I Can See a Liar”. Seven albums in 15 years is okay, but it’s far from MONSTER.
Darkthrone. Despite ending abysmally, Circle the Wagons is very likable. I prefer DT & BFs though.
Brian,
I stopped looking forward to new Maiden records long ago. I did download the new single and found it to be very bland. I think I’ll go back to not looking forward to new Maiden material.
Neurosis. I’ve followed the same path they have musically. And I even like (most of) their offshoots. Though when I saw them at the age of 16, and they started doing their Tribes of Neurot type stuff on stage, I wondered at the time what this new “hippy shit” was. Now, I can listen to it for hours.
More votes for Napalm Death and Pig Destroyer. No stinkers in there.
I’d add Brutal Truth to the list. They don’t have a bad record in the their catalog.
Oh, and Repulsion, but the recorded output is an album and some extras.
The best grind bands seem to consistently record good albums.
This has been a great topic. A few non-metal to go with my above metal picks:
Pixies, The Smiths, Radiohead, Bauhaus (as have been mentioned… vastly underrated band), Uncle Tupelo, Polvo, Nirvana, Jay Reatard (solo stuff), The Blood Brothers, Les Savy Fav, Pinback, Chavez, Swervedriver, Elliott Smith and anything Mark Kozelek has ever put out.
There were a couple of others who had one questionable album (Pavement) or a poor start (Guided by Voices) / finish (NIN), but this was an exercise in “I celebrate [their] entire catalogue.” I can listen to any album the above groups put out and be happy as a clam.
Getting into this game a bit later in life — i didn’t fully embrace metal until a few years ago, before that it was more of a dalliance — I don’t have the same sense of shame some of you might have for certain bands. I suspect if I grew up listening to these bands and felt the stab of betrayal as they changed their sound, this might be different. As it is, revisiting a band’s catalog years down the road, you already know how that career has taken shape. You approach knowing the end result; as such, any transgressions are basically accepted at the outset.
Apparently, I feel this way toward a LOT of bands, including many already mentioned: Napalm Death, Bolt Thrower, Enslaved, Darkthrone, Death, and Mastodon. Oddly(?), I never thought of Death as a band in need of forgiveness. Or Enslaved, for that matter. But there are a lot more: Immortal, Emperor, Immolation, Nile, Blind Guardian (I can’t help it), and Converge. And in non-metal land: the Church, Killing Joke, Japan, Genesis, Swans, New Model Army, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Cure, and Dead Can Dance. In general though, I suspect this list will grow as I complete my back-catalog collections of several more bands.
Candlemass, yeah! I’ve gotta track down a few more of their middle-period albums to complete my collection, but of the 7 I own, there hasn’t been a bad song yet.. Oh, and I should add Three Mile Pilot to the non-metal pile.
I love Office Space. Although towards of the end of my job as an engineer back in Oz, that movie was becoming a little too painfully accurate for me to laugh at it.
Both my picks aren’t strictly metal.
Firstly Patton. I have bought nigh on everything he has put out. And that is a lot. I have both of his solo records. And although I haven’t listened to Adult Themes for Voice in about 5 years, I believe it is 100% defendable.
Without Adult Themes for Voice, I don’t think we would have Fantomas. And Fantomas is my favourite Patton project. Adult Themes was a necessary stepping stone.
I think that holds for other bands. Sometimes they have to try something different. Some times that experiment may not stand on its own – but in the context of their career it makes sense and it is a necessary record.
I’m with Miskatonic and Pseudonymous (sorry if I’ve spelt your names wrong. I’m too lazy to check) on Melvins. I own nearly all of their stuff too. And while I don’t often put on Colossus of Destiny, its not because it isn’t good. It’s just that you need to invest energy in noise records, and I don’t find myself in that space as much as I did when I was 20. Still if they played Colossus live again, I would go check it out. That kind of experimental gear often makes more sense live.
One of these days I’ll write a shorter comment on here.
Converge! NEEEEEXT!!!
Miskatonic:
“One of my favorite Melvins is Hostile Ambient Takeover. I’ve heard it criticized a lot, which I don’t get. It’s brilliant.”
I agree with you there. It’s also another album that successfully integrates their experimental impulses into actual rock songs.
“I did download the new single and found it to be very bland. I think I’ll go back to not looking forward to new Maiden material.”
I felt the same way at first about “El Dorado,” though it has grown on me after repeated listens. On the other hand, aside from a really cool video, everything about the title track–the riffs, the repeat-the-title-of-the-song chorus, the muddled mix–feels kind of uninspired. Check it out here if you haven’t already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oIGP0BUt8s
Two things first: I would add the caveat being that if you can stand it, on your next long road trip, play the entire discography (or as much as you have of it) of one band. Try it. It’s hard as hell. Secondly, I would say if you’re a real sadist try defending Black Flag’s, Guided By Voices or the Fall’s entire outputs. See you in the rubber room. However, my punk choice would be the Minutemen. Everything was great, or had elements of greatness in them—true punk in my opinion, and the day D. Boon died, Dec. 22 1985, was the day punk rock died. This is followed closely by Fugazi–fantastic band and fantastic catalog.
My metal choice would have to be Bathory–it’s tough listening to some of the later output like Blood and Ice especially when I was so enamored with the raw blackened thrash stuff. But I would celebrate it.
Finally, my off-the-wall choice would be the Butthole Surfers. Yes, even ElectricLarryLand. It had a gem or two. But it’s all irrelevant given their weirdo discography or if you happen to be driving through some distant shithole in the middle of nowhere. Then it all makes sense.
“Two things first: I would add the caveat being that if you can stand it, on your next long road trip, play the entire discography (or as much as you have of it) of one band. Try it. It’s hard as hell.”
Back when I delivered pizzas, I spent a whole week listening to the Swans’ discography in chronological order. Amazingly, I did not kill myself afterwards. I’m also the kind of person who likes to listen to career retrospective /box set stuff from start to finish. I have a 3X CD Chrome set, for example, and I never listen to any of it without listening to all of it. That’s another band whose later output I still like, even if it’s not as good as their earlier stuff.
I can think of only 3 bands that have a flawless to near-flawless catalog of albums that I could easily defend:
Zep – not a clunker in the bunch
Beatles – the prototype for perfection
Radiohead – I’d include Tool but can’t stand some of Maynards side projects
However, the one man I will defend to the death no matter how good or crappy each song, record, solo, or performance was, is Jimi Hendrix. Hands down one of the most amazing, creative, and influencial musicians of the 20th century. I probably have 150+ recordings and bootlegs of his, and love every one.
The Bob on the right looks like Karl Rove. The Bob on the left looks like the shift manager I had when I used to work at UPS. If a life working in a corporate office environment yields a future looking and acting like the Bobs, I wouldn’t want anymore of it.
Jason,
I don’t think I could listen to many band’s entire discography. Oingo Boingo was my first obsession and I have that stuff encoded on my DNA. I used to listen to that stuff all the way through ALL THE TIME. That probably because those were the only albums I owned.
I’ve only heard a handful of Butthole Surfers: Rembrant Pussyhorse and Electric Larryland. I think that record is really good. My Brother’s Wife being a personal favorite. Weird Revolution was an obvious attempt at re-capturing the radio success of Pepper. That’s a disgraceful album.
Definitely Morbid Angel. People hate on Heretic, and while it is certainly not their strongest album, I still contend that it’s rad. Now if they’d just follow that one up already…
I will echo Melvins, Dark Throne, and Napalm Death.
Personally, I like the tossed off quality of later Dark Throne, it is like they get together and try a bunch of stuff to see what is brilliant and what doesn’t work.
Paradise Lost.
I love all of their albums. The awkward doomish death metal (Lost Paradise), the classics (Gothic, Shades, Icon), the goth pop of the late 90’s (One Second, Believe in Nothing). Even The last few albums are amazing.
In the late 90’s Paradise did what most graeat doom bands (Katatonia, Anathema) did and turned into radio friendly goth rock. I still love those albums. Whenever I catch them live I always hope they play a song or two from those albums.
Non-metal would be Fugazi, Sonic Youth and Einsturzende Neubauten. Also I totally agree on the Napalm Death thing. Inside the Torn Apart is the album that got me into them in the first place.
Anyone say Emperor yet? I will also defend any of Ihsahn’s solo records.
Dissection, no doubt. all 3 albums, plus the Live Legacy and Early Mischief, and also the Rebirth DVD.
of course they only have 3 albums, but not restrictions were made on what you meant by “entire”.
I have every single Enslaved album on my iPod and could listen to any single one every day — I love them all pretty much equally, although it’s true that some of them stand out above the others. My current favorite is probably Eld.
I agree with what other people are saying about the Melvins, although I must confess that although I am a longtime fan, I still don’t own 100% of their albums. I’m mainly lacking on a few of their newer ones.
My first instinct was to say Ministry, but then I remembered that they had a few missteps in their career, and I’m not just talking about the electronic pop beginnings. But I’ll tell you one thing, they went out with a bang with that last trio of albums.
I still don’t have all of their albums, but I might qualify in this category for 1349, just because I actually love Revelations of the Black Flame, and I seem to be the only person on planet Earth who actually does.
@Miskatonic
Grab “Locust Abortion Technician”, it’s a classic. Every song is awesome…
Anything that involves Chuck Keller is virtually GUARANTEED to DESTROY. Be it Order from Chaos, Vulpecula or Ares Kingdom, he always brings the riffage and the tunes (Hell, even his liner notes for the RU Dead? collection/reissue were excellent).
As for non-metal artists, I’ve spent a small fortune acquiring all things Keiji Haino and have yet to be let down. Yes, some of ‘em confuse the fuck outta me at first, but there’s always something to dig about his gargantuan ouevre– especially if the word “Fushitsusha” is on the cover.
Kalmah. Enough said.
@TomB -
Man, I’m SO CLOSE to being all the way with you on Cradle of Filth as the guiltiest of guilty pleasures, but that fucking horrible bloated mess “Damnation and a Day” is still floating around in the back catalog, so I’m DQ’d, I guess.
That’s easy…The Jesus Lizard. Hands down.
Death, Opeth, Pig Destroyer, At the Gates, Atheist, Coalesce, Discordance Axis, Dillinger Escape Plan, Enslaved, Radiohead, Hate Eternal, Gorguts, Immolation, Nile, The Smiths, Mr. Bungle, Nirvana, Pixies, Rotten Sound, Thou, Salome, Tragedy, Withered, Wolves in the Throne Room. I think that’s all. For now
Another +1 for the mighty Napalm Death.
I’ll throw in Dimmu too.
Oh yeah and Nachtmystium.
There are many bands that have amazing records from start to finish:
Converge
Harvey Milk
Pig Destroyer
Agoraphobic Nosebleed
etc…
But my wife will argue with anyone to the death about Carcass. I like the first three and Heartwork is listenable but I hate Swan Song. She on the other hand will fight you over that shit. She loves em all, even some Arch Enemy. I’m surprised she wasn’t on here praising them already
Outside of metal I can easily say
Dead Can Dance (even Spirit Chaser)
Magma (I don’t have a full discography but all I have I love)
King Crimson (down to live bootlegs)
Rush (even the new wave / electropop period)
Metal just isn’t built for sustainable carreers. The closest to it is Bolt Thrower from my archives, but even there I hardly listen to the first couple of albums anymore. They’re not bad, they just perfected their idiom later and I can listen to the perfect records and be happy.
Coroner however, ARE a band without any bad records, true. I didn’t know why they didn’t occur to me.
Candlemass were rolling straight on through until “From The 13th Sun” (Dactylis Glomerata wasn’t that hot however). Even “Ancient Dreams” I can deal with. But the records after Messiah came back and now with Lowe are all embarassing boring dad metal half-assed crap. It pains me to say this because Epicus Doomicus Metallicus *made me*.
I love a lot of bands with 3 or 2 albums and then they broke up, however.
I am an avid Sevendust fan. Ive never really heard anybody trully hate on them for making a shite record. Most people respect them for all their work and specifically there live show.
I do found it fascinating, however, that there are such widly differing opinons about their best and worst records (8 so far) among fans. Some think Home is their masterpiece, while others dig Alpha as the pinacle of all their sound changes put together. Others think they should’ve never left the sound on their debut(I heard it described as “soul thrash” once.)
Either way, I grew up with them from the begining, can’t quit now. The latest one is extremely well done, the positive response seems unanimous. definitely one of the strongest in their collection. Im glad they were able to cast off the nu-metal label people gave them and really become a unique thing, releveant now more than ever in this current generation of butt-rock as I call it (Nickleback, shinedown etc.)
For me, it’s Opeth and Meshuggah. All of my other favourite bands have albums that bug the hell out of me.
Outside metal, Can is the first band that comes to mind. Love that band’s records, flaws and all.
I’m entirely too much of a music nerd, so I’m going to limit myself to metal(ish) bands with discographies of a decent size…
Without Reservation:
High On Fire – Nothing by them has ever made me do less than throw up the horns. Some quibble over the new record, I’m all over that shit too.
The Haunted – I started with Marco Aro-era stuff, so when Peter Dolving rejoined the band it was a bit of an adjustment, but I have yet to be disappointed by them. Solid and scratch just the right itch.
With Caveats:
Crowbar – I love everything I’ve heard. Of course, variety isn’t their strong suit. They pretty much write the same two songs over and over again, but they’re good songs. However, I have not yet heard Odd Fellows Rest, and that seems to be the one people don’t like.
Therapy? – Not enough bands mix metal and post-punk for my liking, and although I’ve been big on everything from Troublegum onwards, poor production hurts some of their earlier stuff, and Infernal Love is a little dodgy.
Slayer – Not because everything they do is awesome, but because nothing they’ve done has really sucked out loud. To me, the difference between Slayer and someone like Crowbar is that if Crowbar keep writing the same two songs, Slayer keep making the same couple of albums, and it’s harder for me to muster enthusiasm for that.
I couldn’t include Celtic Frost – not just for Cold Lake, but also because I thought Vanity/Nemesis was sort of dull. Like they knew they had to make a more “Celtic Frost” album, but their heart wasn’t in it. My appreciation for Darkthrone follows sort of a U-curve – I like the early black metal stuff, and I like the later black metal-punk stuff, but the mid-period stuff leaves me a little cold.
I actually sort of like the idea of listening to Swans entire discography, as long as it’s done in chronological order – like traveling through a long long night to see dawn finally start to slowly break. Listening to the Fall’s entire discography strikes me as a multi-year commitment to locking yourself in a room with a schizophrenic.
I guess I should give more listens to Candlemass but it’s kind of frustrating because the first album is such PERFECT, FLAWLESS MOLTEN HOT METAL and the rest I’ve heard ranges from “good” to “ok” but isn’t up to that standard. Usually, when I want to listen to Candlemass I just listen to the debut. I could probably live without the rest.
Slayer and High On Fire.
Non-metal, Gov’t Mule.
I gotta say Bad Religion, I really love all their albums including their “major label” years.
Nuclear Assault also comes to mind. (yes, I liked “Something Wicked” too)
Sounds about right but then half of “Nightfall” and half of “Ancient Dreams” put together are almost as impactful as “Epicus Doomicus Metallicus” and in a different (much more ecclesiastical) vibe. And “Tales of Creation” is a very interesting concept album, though not all molten steel to destroy, mind you.
“Chapter VI” has exactly three classic tracks. The rest doesn’t matter as much but those three are more important than whole discographies of epic metal bands. You’ll be able to spot them easily. Read the lyrics along with the songs as well, I didn’t expect it but it’s a very well-considered record in that regard.
“From the 13th Sun” is a completely un-Candlemass type of record, but it has its graces, namely production, atmosphere and a strange obscure feeling that captures the empty metal 90’s in a way, while not being cynical like most post-metal releases. It’s a long expounding on the *form* of metal sans the content, make no mistake, but an interesting expounding nonetheless.
It is when Candlemass tried to return to Heavy Metal proper that they sold out. It’s sad to see it happen. They should have either called it a day or go in the Abstrakt Algebra direction, only even further left-field. It’s clear their heart isn’t into it from the half-assed two-chord riffs and really truly abysmal lyrics.
“My world goes boom…The Hammer of Doom” really now? Same band that wrote Demon’s Gate?
Oh yeah I meant to mention Scott “Wino” Weinrich. Any band. The Obsessed, Saint Vitus, Spirit Caravan, Place of Skulls, The Hidden Hand, Wino, Shrinebuilder and all of the countless songs and/or albums he has contributed his immense talents. Any opportunity to hear his singing and/or playing is a blessing. There will never be enough. I could never say enough. I celebrate not only his entire catalogue, but also the man himself. For surviving and thriving. His guitar playing is music for my soul.
Immolation and Absu. There.
Cosmo, I’ve been reading your site for over a year and a half now. It’s one of the best. I’m not one to comment, but atanamar does have allies.
In Flames and Children of Bodom got me into metal and I love all their stuff. Can’t complain with Goatwhore, Gojira, and Wolves In The Throne Room either.
Bands that have never let me down…Bolt Thrower, Neurosis, Yob, and Unearthly Trance. They may do it in the future, but it’s not looking good!
I’m with Helm on this one, every band drops a clunker from time to time and nearly every band listed here has a stinker or two…or four if we’re talking Danzig, Slayer, or Metallica.
someones gonna throw shit at me, but i’m putting devildriver on the wall. groovy, familiar, high energy, it’s all i need to get me though a work out.
They aren’t my favorite band, but every album is consistent and solid. i know front man dez is a litlle hard to take and his lyrics are sometimes less than desirable, but i dont care.
im with brad on the maiden thing. blaze is fine with me. in fact, just the other day, i defended blaze in public.
Alice In Chains
I don’t think I’ve seen Voivod on here yet. I’ll defend it all, even the Eric Forrest years (Phobos is a great album), and my all-time favourite release of theirs is Angel Rat.
If they try to release new material without Piggy, however, I may step off.
Amorphis.
I like tales.
and saxophones.
It’s all about the lineup. I can’t think of a band I’ve stayed loyal to who didn’t retain a “classic” lineup. If you even have to mention the word “classic” it’s over.
Slayer? But the latter part of their catalog fails to hold my interest. Hard to put my finger on.
Maybe Absu.
This is a tough question.
@Jason–nice choice with Jesus Lizard. Those crazy fucks rule.
@Helm–Great point, metal isn’t made for longevity. I was wondering if you could expand on that–I have my own thoughts about it, mainly being that its hard to keep your creativity burning, getting along with your band mates or a million other things (like the same old powerchords/progressions, etc.) I also wonder if it’s because of the state of the record industry these days. Gone are the days when bands (except for a certain few) signed on for multiple album deals, something I’ve always thought was insane to begin with. Who the fuck knows whats going to happen in two days much less two+years. Why metal music? Lots of genres have one hit/two hit wonders all the time. Thanks.
As a LAST follow up, I just wanted to say that I sure wish I had these kinds of forums for metal when I was coming up, these are great. It’s gotten me passionate again about a music I’ve loved for 20+ years, so thanks Cosmo, and thanks to all the regulars here.
This zine/site should probably get a message board…
My position isn’t prescriptive, it’s descriptive. My experience says that most bands have one or two amazing albums in them, not five or ten. It’s not like I *wish* it for things to be this way, it’s just sadly how it is. So don’t take my theorizing below as an attempt to shackle down a specific reality. I never use the words “it’s impossible” or “that’s just not realistic”. If a metal band can write ten masterpieces in a row, be my guest, I’ll worship at your altar if you manage it! Manilla Road *almost* made it, so… kill a god, become a god!
My simplification would be that
1) Metal bands used to rehearse and workshop their first album a hell of a lot longer than their subsequent post-signing albums. It’s one thing to put three solid years of rehearsal and craft into a first bunch of songs and quite another to be asked by your record company to follow that stuff up “every year would be great, thanks!”.
(this has changed a little in the digital age where metal bands don’t put three solid years in their debut because they tend to self-release every little demo they write and call it an album… this just means that their definitive statement comes at album three or four, but it’s still the same for trying to follow it up next year).
2) Metal composers are bone-headed. It’s not Bach counterpoint, they usually don’t read or write music. It’s worked out by people with guitars in hand, playing in their ‘hand-space’ (as opposed inside their head-space) most of the time, they tend to rehash and return to the same riffs and shapes. Simple example, let’s say you’ve got this riff locked in and you’re playing it with your mates, but now you want to try a flatted fifth on the third repetition, while the other guitarist plays an octave. Imagine having to remind everyone in the band about your little change, eventually you’ll give up and just ‘play the riff 8 times and be done with it’. Whereas a classical composer just reaches into the sheet music and marks the changes, done.
Besides truly progressively-minded bands, this means morphological stagnation down the road for metal writing. Most bad bands have a great riff or two in them. Most mediocre bands have a great song or two in them. Most great bands have a great record or two in them. *Especially* when they get adoration and success for this record they made they’ll find it increasingly psychologically difficult to say “right, now let’s reinvent ourselves”. Instead they tend to copy their own hit record over and over again.
3) Philosophically and aesthetically the concerns of a metal band are usually romanticist. These hopes and desires that fuel romanticism are formulated in that awkward alienated teenage phase and are in constant friction with modern-day living. The longer a person is on this planet, the more difficult it is to keep the flame alive. Often bands mature into amazing craftsmen and even amazing composers of metal music, only to find out that their hearts aren’t any longer in it. They will then just copy their earlier ethos over and over and never admit to that they’re doing it. The braver will hopefully try to take that experience of friction and convey it in their music, but that’s very difficult to do.
4) The more records a metal band makes, the more it seems to be obsessed every new record with getting better gear, better cover art, better production, better technique and so on. This becomes the raison d’etre for the band whereas what got them into making metal music was initially more vital: the burning desire for self-expression and hopefully a metaphysical reach into timeless ideals. Once you get that on your first or second record, the rest is just ‘a career’.
Whole discography (regardless if people consider some of these too easy to agree upon):
Enslaved, Neurosis, Opeth, Tool, Mastodon, Voivod (yea, that’s right!), Deceased, Slough Feg, Nevermore, Mercyful Fate, King Diamond, My Dying Bride, Electric Wizard, Down (three albums… maybe too easy), Morbid Angel (one album that’s tolerable, everything else golden, so still counts), Death, Atheist, Amon Amarth, Akercocke, Primordial, In the Woods, Arcturus, Agalloch, Ulver, Watain, Summoning, Sigh, Negura Bunget, Immortal, Emperor, Destroyer 666, Darkthrone (latest albums are just as good as the BM classics, I’ll stick to that),
non Metal: Dead Can Dance, Coil, Swans, Skinny Puppy, Alice in Chains, The Arcade Fire, The Birthday Party, Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds, Sigur Rós, Bauhaus, Joy Division (kind of easy there), Dead Kennedys, Devil Doll, Samhain…. so on.
Mastodon fits this perfectly for me. I love the entire body of work, ESPECIALLY the much-maligned Crack the Skye. I know, I know – I’ve heard it all before, but I still love the shit out of it.
Those four dudes could record an album of fart noises and I’d probably still love it.
Helm – it’s refreshing to see someone elaborately putting down a lot of what I would if I didn’t basically give up on communicating with the human race.
Where do you get your strength from?
HEAVY METAL
Dream Theater. I know, I know. Whatever.
Also, the Ocean. I loved Heliocentric despite myself.
Otherwise, it’s the usual suspects. Death, Cynic, Atheist, Carcass (yeah, I like Swansong), In the Woods… That sort of thing.
Type O Negative… knew what I was going to get everytime since Bloody Kisses… awesome.
Miskatonic,
of allllll their songs, i’m surprised that one rubs you the wrong way. i have 261 songs in my iTunes library from them and i buy every album on disc. shit, i buy their interview discs and live albums. i’ll admit when a band puts out something less than stellar, but i think noel is just gifted. he has something in his soul that sets him apart from the vast majority of songwriters on our shitty planet.
coldplay, for instance: they started off w/ what i would consider a PERFECT album and each record after that got worse. the next couple were good, but overshadowed by Parachutes. the newest one? i don’t even listen to it.
how good is “the shock of the lightning” off the newest one? damn. i know their catalog dipped a bit after be here now, but i thought they got back on their A-game w/ “don’t believe the truth”. the thing is, anything less than A-game for Oasis is still light years better than most other bands’ “a-game”.
The Lord Weird Slough Feg
Faith No More
The Wildhearts
Helm, I have trouble with your notion that bands only have a small number of great albums in them. Partly, I think this depends on how much you value originality in an album, both within the artist’s own catalog, and compared to the broader context they work in.
Take Opeth, for example (I know you don’t rate them nearly as highly as I do, but this is my comment!). I would categorise their discography like this:
a clever and original first effort;
a successful second album correcting the larger faults of the first album;
a great album using a concept as a primary differentiator from the prior albums;
a strong album finding an effective songwriting method and a creating a formula to maximise their strengths;
a superb album, adding improved production and some external musicianship to the formula of the previous album;
a very good album repeating the formula of the previous album;
an interesting album collecting material in the minority on previous albums;
a very good album concentrating more on retro-prog-rock than previously;
another very good album, similar to and exaggerating the qualities of the previous one
Now, I happen to think that every one of these albums bar one contains a very high degree of musical craftsmanship and has a wealth of beautiful and/or powerful music, and I love all of those – so is that 8 great albums? OTOH, if you value the continued display of originality, you can probably group their albums into three phases, and say they have three great albums, each representative of one of those phases. Or, from a wider perspective, that their entire discography is self-similar, and the best of the lot constitutes a single great album.
I certainly have a hard time thinking of bands who had more than 3 great albums, given the stipulation that each must be substantially different from the others in their own discography. Personally, though, I have no dispute with any band that makes a new album similar to a prior one, provided they believe they have executed the concept more effectively on the subsequent attempt. It’s a fine line, though, as persistence gradually becomes boring.
I’d like to say I celebrate the entire discography of the Clash, but I can’t quite pull it off. ‘Give ‘em Enough Rope’ is pretty damn good in my opinion, and hiding inside ‘Sandinista!’ there’s a great 1-and-half albums trying to get out. ‘Cut the Crap’, though, is truly awful.
@ Cliff Evans: “Listening to the Fall’s entire discography strikes me as a multi-year commitment to locking yourself in a room with a schizophrenic.”
I have the _50,000 Fall Fans Can’t Be Wrong_ comp. I often listen to both discs in order, and even that is a little much.
@ Jason “That’s easy…The Jesus Lizard. Hands down.”
Even _Blue_? I understand they were trying to do something different–and enlisting Andy Gill to produce must have seemed like a good idea on paper–but that’s a bad album, and one that, as a huge fan of the rest of the band’s work, I can’t celebrate (or even bring myself to listen to, for that matter).
Also, Killing Joke. I sometimes *gasp* listen to “Outside The Gates” and “Brighter Than A Thousand Suns” even though I know they’re rubbish compared to the rest of their discography.
@Helm, re: your point #1:
I understand what you’re getting at, but the notion that somehow a band’s first record (or first few) were better because bands took a longer time working them out doesn’t hold water for me, especially if you look at some of heavy metal’s original innovators (and still stalwarts):
I mean, the first six Sabbath records all came out in the span of five years. Or take Judas Priest: discounting ‘Rocka Rolla’ and ‘Point of Entry’ (I know there’s decent stuff on both, but neither really deserves ‘classic’ status), they put out eight (!) jaw-dropping albums between ‘Sad Wings of Destiny’ in 1976 and ‘Defenders of the Faith’ in 1984. And Maiden, of course, had a similar astonishingly fertile creative period, with their seven undisputedly classic records (plus eight, if we throw in ‘Live After Death’) in the eight-year span of 1980-88.
I think the biggest counter-argument to my point here is probably that heavy metal was still a much wider-open field in the late 70s through mid-80s, so that a band could put out six to eight records in as many years which all sound fantastic and never derivative simply because the field was less saturated than it is now. So I guess, if I agree with your point, it’s not because I think there is something intrinsic to the way bands are writing music today, but that the environment in which they are writing that music has changed fairly drastically.
The closest analog of those Sabbath/Priest/Maiden winning streaks I can think of these days is Enslaved, as several folks here have already mentioned. They’ve bashed out ten phenomenal records in a 14-year span (‘Vikingligr Veldi’ in ‘94 to ‘Vertebrae’ in ‘08), with the four records from ‘Mardraum’ to ‘Isa’ being an especially impressive stretch, coming in four years and representing such creative advancements of the form.
Matt Vogt, it’s so difficult to tackle your objection when Opeth is the example, because as you say, I don’t rate them highly and you do. More than that, it appears you’re intimate with them as if they’re your friends.
I do operate under a concept of ‘time is precious, what is necessary?’ when it comes to Heavy Metal and art appreciation in general. Meaning, I am very self-critical of my consumption habits and very rarely am comfortable with listening to something just to listen to it. I tend to think “what am I getting from this that equips me to have a better life?” a lot when I listen to Heavy Metal, especially, because for me it’s romantic art. I realize that attitude is unpopular in our cultural climate but I don’t give a shit. If it’s not contributing, it has to go.
I didn’t adopt this attitude so I can be cool on message boards. I did it for my love of Heavy Metal to survive. This means that I need to not just find curiousness in a band’s continuing career to keep interested, I need to find inspiration and hope. I tend to think that following a band because you’re intimate and curious with them is problematic because you’re not really intimate with them, it’s an illusion. Just like people follow celebrities and achieve a vicarious sense of living through them, they don’t really know these people and they’re consuming prepackaged spectacle that has the edges rounded off. The rules of that reality disgust me, and perhaps more importantly, they harm me. I don’t know Phil Anselmo or Tom G. Warrior and I’ll never pretend to, I refuse to approach them like people approach pop idols like Beyonce or whomever. I’m not in metal to make friends. I realize that they’ve got appealing multifaceted personalities and faults and stuff that makes them endearing, but they’re prepackaged, they’re spectacle, not human beings. The dynamic range has been squashed just enough for them to be the most attractive. This is why a lot of people are crestfallen when they finally meet their idols and see the worst aspects first-hand. Perhaps Tom G. Warrior has bad breath, you know? You’ll never tell from an album photoshoot. Perhaps Akerfeldt has an awful sense of humour, perhaps he’ll hit on your girlfriend when you’re not looking. I have human beings around me in my real life that need the attention I would spend in imagining myself to be Phil Anselmo’s friend, you know?
To the degree that I follow metal lore, I am not interested in the lives of the actors as an end in itself, I am interested in the situations that give rise to the records that resonate with me. I am interested then, in the Entity of the band, not the personnel that summons it. I look for God, not for priests.
Opeth seem to just be one of these bands for you where you’ll follow their whole trajectory through music because you’re that intimate with them and they’re interesting to you even when they fail or are boring, because they’re your friends, in a way. Probably because they were a band that got you into metal? If I used to have anything like that it would probably be something like Metallica, whom I followed as a kid well into their sucky period because I was that close to their music and hadn’t yet realized that “Jaymz, Kirk, Newsted & Ulrich” are not what Metallica means to me. I have for some years now stopped doing that, I deleted Black Album, Load, Reload, St. Anger, I listened to Death Magnetic exactly two times out of a misplaced desire to keep current and deleted that folder too, I haven’t looked back.
Helloween where my second major metal love. I had learned by then and never even listened to “Chameleon” and “Pink Bubbles Go Ape” in their entirety even once. The reflex was correct because idol worship is *antithetical* to Heavy Metal. The more you know about Lars Ulrich, the less you can focus on the entity he summons.
It’s not a question of originality per se. It’s a question of quintessence. On your Opeth example, let’s concede that they have three periods (though I’m only so familiar with the first two of them: romantic blackish metal era (Orchid – Morningrise) and conceptual moody death metal/soft strummy period (My Arms, Still Life, Blackwater Park). If I were to listen to an Opeth record now I’d be Morningrise and perhaps Still Life, because they epitomize their aspiration in those two periods and are most resonant with me. I might spin these once every year. Why would I spin them more when I have other records closer to my heart?
Even if you select all of Opeth’s catalogue, and that’s fine, do you do it for great many other artists other than Opeth? Do you have many ‘close friends’? In the answer to that question more questions will arise.
CHILDREN OF BODOM. probably a lot of you hate this bands entire discography, but I enjoy almost every single song. I realize how gay it is, but it can be gay and still be good, though I still feel its kind of a guilty pleasure.
CANNIBAL CORPSE. I heard a couple of guys talking about how CC are not as good as they used to be or that they suck now. which I think is completely untrue CC ages like fine wine and never gets old.
@ Helm – interesting that although you’re not an Opeth fan, you at least did pick their two best records as the ones you’d give a spin to
@ Autonocuous – I’m with your wife on this one. I will defend Carcass’s entire catalog.. even Swansong. Guess they counted on my list too, hadn’t thought about it.
And I would REALLY like to include Death, but Spiritual Healing leaves me non-plussed.
And Arcturus counts for me too
@pseudonymous,
Yes, even Blue has a place under the rock that covers the spidery hole in my heart. Not their best effort, but I am completely and willfully blind to any perceived missteps by those guys.
I used to love Morningrise because of the fluid bass playing and some of the beautiful riffs, plus it was a novel style back in uh, ~2000 when I bought it… then over years of attentive listening, these initial hooks, instead of leading to a full appreciation of the compositions and their meanings, stayed the main attractive qualities. I realize it’s not the same for you or other Opeth appreciators, but at some point I had to accept there was nothing else going on in there. And sadly late period Opeth seem to be self-conscious about it.
Once I thought I’d do a bit of trolling and chop up the best riffs off off Morningrise (the whole album) into one single 6 minute track (as this is possible since most of the album is on the same key or in keys you can easily go to and from, generally speaking) but then decided the point would be lost on appreciators of Opeth as they like the 32 repetitions of the same riff salad style, and as far as detractors… never was one to preach to the converted.
But seriously, think about it. If such a thing can be done (and if you’re familiar with Morningrise, you know it could be) what does that say about the compositional style of the band?
Helm,
I think you’ve constructed a wonderful argument there, and I would say that MOST OF THE TIME I agree with you. “It all comes down to the music.” is a sentiment expressed often by metal heads. And it’s true, that is one of the greatest things heavy metal culture has going for it. We feel our focus is in the right place. There can be no purer reason for listening to music. Viewing band members as our friends, or worse, worshiping them can be quite destructive.
I think it’s similar to sports fan mentality. I cannot handle it when people include themselves as a member of a team they are a fan of, “When we were 3 points behind and we were able to make a touchdown. It was awesome! Now we’ll be in the playoffs!” That kind of talk is pathetic because this person gets so wrapped up in the sport that they actually see themselves as part of the sport. Worshiping the individual players is even more pathetic because most of those guys wouldn’t even give you the time of day. And here you are spending all sorts of money to elevate them. It’s even worse when people see their team as a representative of themselves. I live in Utah and I could give a shit if the Jazz win a game. It doesn’t change anything about the state I’m living in and it doesn’t change anything about me. When I see someone driving around with some ridiculous sports team message on their car, I want to give them the bird. The only problem is they would assume I’m hating on their team rather than hating on the idea of team pride. So, I keep my finger sheathed.
Now, I can admire the skills of an athlete or a team and I can even get excited by a good game. If I just think of it as entertainment, that’s what I get from it. Same with music.
Having said that, I must admit to falling for bands romantically here and there. Entombed, Darkthrone, Oasis. That’s why I can only agree with your point to a certain extent. On principal it makes perfect sense. In practice, the human factor takes over from time to time.
@ Miskatonic, you’ve really hit the nail on the head, and said it better than I could have. Helm makes a solid point (and Helm, I really am interested to hear your Morningrise Salad Composition!), but the human factor does have a tendency to take over. I think that’s part of the reason that I have a hard time finding new music that really sticks with me these days; its (partially) due to the fact that the music that I like the most have strong connections to certain periods and experiences in my past, and it is very, very difficult to untie them from the music.
And as an aside, Miskatonic, I feel you SO much on the sports fan analogy. I have friends who so strongly associate themselves with UNC basketball, despite the fact that they never even attended the school, its sickening. Yes, they reference the team as “we.”
@Helm
RE: “This is why a lot of people are crestfallen when they finally meet their idols and see the worst aspects first-hand.”
Remind me some time to tell you the story of when I talked to Jeff Becerra. Ugh…
Talking to people you really look up to…BIG MISTAKE.
Miskatonic, I’m equally lost on the “we kicked your ass!” sports mentality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU
This bit from Michell & Webb captures it hilariously for me.
Yes I find it dangerous to go into music such as Heavy Metal with such inclusive mentality. If anything Heavy Metal is even more hostile and alienating than most music. You feel inspired by what your favourite band are playing? That doesn’t make you family. You should pick up your instrument and write a better record than them. Kill a god, become a god!
Though I have to admit you kinda lost me on Oasis a bit… Oasis was the enemy when I was growing up, I’m trying to be open-minded but I don’t know, man, I have my limits!
Re: Opeth salad tossing, It would be downright disgraceful to treat Morningrise as a riff depository even if it oftentimes sounds like one. I don’t want to do that because all things said and done, I don’t think Opeth deserve that sort of mockery. Instead, here’s an edit that isn’t disgraceful but merely mildly disrespectful. It’s of the song ‘Advent’ with which I’m certain you’re very familiar. It strikes me as the best Opeth song from that era. Listen to the chop-up here and tell me if – aside from a few ungraceful edits, I’m not getting paid for this – you think the song is missing anything compositionally. Then check the original song length versus the edit length. And yeah that’d be mean-spirited if Opeth had grown out of doing this, but it seems to me if anything they got even worse in this respect over the years.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KDHZ03F0
Morningrise is the only Opeth album I can stand without retching violently…
Thanks Helm, I’ll give that a listen when I get off of work
@Helm: people get paid big money to do what you just did. They are called producers. Nothing is missing from your edit. The band could do far worse (and probably will) than to consult with you while making their next album.
Bravo.
Helm,
I’ll add Michell & Webb to my ever growing list of shows I’ll try to see before I die. That was spectacular! I’ll be sending that on to my good friend from Ecuador (guess what he’s obsessed with?)
I’m not really going to try to defend Oasis on a metal discussion board.
In my defense, (What’s the Story) Morning Glory was the very first purchase when I got home from my LDS mission. I wasn’t exactly a metal head at that time, as you can imagine, but I was always an obsessive so that’s what I became obsessed with. Oasis, in my opinion put together some wonderful pop songs. I wasn’t seeking greatness in music at the time, just something easy. Plus, I find Noel and Liam endlessly entertaining. Noel is one of those loquacious people whom I can actually listen to while they rattle on and on and on.
I was going to type something macho like “I engineer and make compositional choices only for my own band and everyone else should do the same with theirs!’ but you know, I wouldn’t mind getting paid to do that stuff really, I’d navigate the ethical problems. Greece is a financial hellhole right now, getting a job is difficult.
That said, Opeth did have a very opinionated producer at the time, namely Dan Swanö. They also have gone on record to say that they’re not happy with Orchid and Morningrise because they has too much of Swanö’s influence on them. Swanö also wrote a song called “Tribute to the Orchids” on his Moontower project (which is both awesome and a bit unintentionally funny at the same time, rare feat), so it seems he was really in love with the band in their romantic black/death period. I guess Swanö was all for 16 bars of every riff, at the time!
Miskatonic: Michell & Webb sadly isn’t consistent. I guess they only had so many riffs (i.e. jokes) in them and they’re retreading now.
As far as Oasis goes, I get where you’re coming from a little, I think. I didn’t mind them for being a pop band back then, I minded them for being obnoxious! But then again I listen to Nasty Savage and Carnivore so what do I know about obnoxiousness.
The problem with a lot of great songwriters is that they are very bad critics. Someone like Glen Danzig gives the impression that he cannot distinguish his Mothers from his Blackacidevils. As long as he had Rick Rubin to tell him, it was alright.
Someone like Fenriz with his encyclopedic knowledge of metal is much better at this. The best situation is probably when there are more main songwriters with strong personalities in a band like in Slayer and The Beatles. If Kerry King thinks Jeff Hanneman has written as mediocre song, he will tell him for sure and vice versa.
In contrast with historical knowledge, I don’t think technical skills have much to do with it. In fact a lot of band with long careers have done so by keeping close to their strengths (Motörhead, AC/DC, Slayer)
@Martijn, RE: “If Kerry King thinks Jeff Hanneman has written as mediocre song, he will tell him for sure and vice versa.”
Yeah, it worked really nicely for Emperor too. Well, for a while.
Wow, this topic really blew up, awesome. First off thanks, Helm, for addressing my question on metal longevity–I appreciate your always thoughtful/thought provoking comments. I’d like to say I agree totally and add that it reminds of the current trend now in music (not just heavy music). It’s the ‘we’re going to play our critically acclaimed/fan favorite album’ tour. I’m skeptical. Nostalgia’s a circle of codependency I really don’t want a part of, but the financial reward outweighs the risk of alienating fans (merch sales?) Much like the endless flow of ‘remastered album/bonus tracks/shit we just threw together’–premeditated attempts to cash in on what you called the ‘romantic friction’ (paraphrase) in our relationship to HM, and art. In context of the topic at hand, a band’s catalog, it seems as if celebrating one album out of the others reinforces the band/fan relationship to a point where it doesn’t evolve at all. Why see a band when you have the living document from the time period when they were in their prime? Unless something really special was on display, why bother? I see the counterarguments being “but they bring new bands on tour with them” or “it’s for the new generation of fans.” Good and good, I suppose, but not worth cheapening yourself or the genre for, and you could always see said new band by themselves at a club or something. I assume if you like the band alot, you’ll go all the way, drink the kool aid, and flaunt the t shirt. I saw Megadeth, Slayer and Testament individually already, own the records, etc. Anyway, thanks for letting me rant. I don’t know if I added anything new/substantial to the topic, it was cathartic.
@Helm: Ah yes, but being a producer does not in itself make you good at your professional. Case in point, Bob Rock. Producers can lose their touch just like bands. Case in point, Rick Rubin.
@Martijn: I’m not so sure songwriters are bad critics as much as they are to close/invested in their work to self edit. That why a red flag for me is when I read about a band working on their new album announces they are going to produce themselves.
Producers have to walk a fine line. There are those who become to involved. Rock began to think of himself as the 5th ‘tallica dude. The opposite is true as well. Today Rick Rubin produces via gotomeeting.com and conference calls. His latest work with Slayer and Metallica was largely in name only as Greg Fidelman handled most on the on-hands production work for both bands’ latest albums.
KoRn. Even See You on the Other Side (Chopped and Skrewed). Prong is not nu metal, but one of four bridge supports on the way to nu metal (Primus, Faith No More, Helmet).
Great site
@Pseudonymous: I also have the ‘50,000 Fall Fans Can’t Be Wrong’ compilation, and I love it to pieces. Unfortunately, the size and seeming haphazardness of their album catalog makes it impossible to jump in anywhere and expect to be well rewarded.
Another problem with the Fall, for me: I can’t really identify what it is about them that I actually enjoy, so I can’t even get a Fall expert to help me identify which albums I might really like…
@Helm, I agree with you on the cult of personality, and how music appreciation is simplified by a deliberate or unconscious attempt to dissociate the art from the persona(s) that are on display as the purported creator. I can’t claim to have ever spoken to anyone in Opeth in person or by any digital means, so I won’t say we’re friends!
To me, the name of the band becomes something of a brand – you have a general expectation of what you’re going to get by the fact that a specific name is used to brand it. It’s like watching football, in a sense – you can tune in to watch FC Barcelona’s first game of any new season, and you know you’re going to get pass-and-move technical football. If you don’t like that, and you prefer athletic movement and attempts to pierce the opposition via pace and long passes, you’re better off watching Manchester United.
Really, I think I do the same for all artists – if they make something I love, I get attached and follow their other releases to see if they contain the same magical element that I enjoy in the first case. So, to answer your question, I do not have ‘close friends’ in the sense of bands to whose public personas I have strong connections, but I do have many ‘close friends’ in the sense that I am well-acquainted with the breadth of their discography.
I chose Opeth for my example because I think they are an illustrative case who are widely recognised – I think you can make a valid argument for them having any of zero, one, three or eight ‘great albums’ depending on your position regarding originality. To take another case, I think applying the same logic to Rotting Christ allows you to claim that they have one of zero, one, four, or ten ‘great albums’. Many other bands are similar.
@Helm, to respond to some of your other points:
“I might spin these once every year. Why would I spin them more when I have other records closer to my heart?”
You shouldn’t! If they’re not close to your heart, give them away. There are bands where I only listen to one of their albums now – for example, Green Carnation’s ‘Light of Day, Day of Darkness’ is the only one from the catalog I love. For other bands, though, there are many albums close to my heart, and in some cases that set includes practically the entire discography.
“But seriously, think about it. If such a thing can be done (and if you’re familiar with Morningrise, you know it could be) what does that say about the compositional style of the band?”
That they’re formulaic. It’s a criticism I won’t contest, and I’ve said before that a good formula is well worth following. The trick is to keep things interesting by using variation to differentiate releases, without interfering with the part that works.
Eyehategod- unless they have a techno album that I’m unaware of…
Neurosis- While it’s all quality, I rarely listen to anything before “Through Silver In Blood” though.
Converge- Kind of the same deal. While the “old” stuff (When Forever Comes Crashing and earlier)sounds really dated to me now, they were always on point and ahead of the game at the time.
Pig Destroyer too.
Someone mentioned “Odd Fellows Rest”? That actually my favorite Crowbar album. F the haters, “Planets Collide” is one of my favorite metal jams ever.
@AVR SEFRA (Jeff?)
Yeah, agree with you on Absu pretty much. Texas boys align.
@ Helm – that was definitely an interesting take on Advent, and I still enjoyed it despite the five-ish missing minutes… although I’m still partial to the original, as I’ve heard it so many times, I could certainly tell what was missing and what wasn’t.
@ Matt – I think with Opeth, in my own personal case, I’ve drawn that personal connection with them and therefore probably somewhat associate the personas with the music. I’ve met them after many shows, spoken with them at length, even smoked up with Martin Lopez in the back of our car on their first tour here. Still, I can fairly be somewhat critical of them… some of their albums are much more lackluster than the others, and there are some songs that I think are just toss-aways. Still, though, they still release quality material every time in my opinion.
You make an interesting point to about “if its not close to your heart, give it away.” I’ve been feeling lately that I would be much better off if I pared down my music collection, but I feel that if I got rid of something that I *might* want to listen to every once in a while, then I’ll regret. How do you part with your music?
In the past i felt the need to make one album of all the good songs of Kings’X, because of the numerous lame ones on every album they made that annoyed me.. but not anymore! Kings’X grows on you like all the good things in life; cheese, wine, olives.. (?!) Everything Doug Pinnick touches turns to gold..
@ Hidde – I just gave “Ogre Tones” a spin the other day because it had been wayyy too long. King’s X is great
Damn, I love Swansong, so I guess I gotta add Carcass too.
I would definitely go for both Suffocation and Immolation. Every single album by these two bands are just flawless, in terms of sticking to what they do best: insane heavy music. Suffocation creates the most dynamic metal songs, while Immolation creates the most frightening and uneasy musical atmospheres, not to mention their lyrics.
I would even go for Iron Maiden, and I’d dare to go for Dark Tranquillity.
To begin, as a first-timer here, I just wanna say what a great site/blog this is: wide-ranging, open-minded, intelligent and insightful, and that applies not only to the stories but to the comments and conversations that follow.
Anyway, I thought I’d add my two cents and mention ISIS. A lot of people lost interest after Panopticon, but I find myself coming back to its follow up ITAOT time and time again – a very underrated album in my opinion. I also found a lot to enjoy with Wavering Radiant. Post-metal as a whole at the moment seems to have fallen out of favour, which I think is a good thing. Sometimes when a certain sound/band/album slips off the radar, it can be the best time to step aside and appreciate it, without all the hype and hyperbole that confronts you every time you open a mag or log onto the net. It’s kinda like the band/album becomes “yours” again, (even though your mates can’t help but scoff when you mention it). This has applied to a lot of albums to me over the years, from Metallica’s “Load” era, to John Bush-era Anthrax, all the way back to albums like Motley Crue’s self-titled following “Dr Feelgood” or Skid Row’s “Subhuman Race” following “Slave…”. The bands are considered to be past their prime, but often that’s when they’re the most fun.
Paradise Lost, even the synth, Depeche-Mode-imitating phase (“Host”).
Type O Negative, even the rythm-machine albums (“World Coming Down”).
Metallica, even St. Anger (whose real broken-harmonic charms I’ve only recently discovered, at first I thought it was shite)
Alice in Chains, at least with Layne.
I want to say Judas Priest, but some of their early stuff is just horrible.
And I actually quite liked Iron Maiden with Blase Baily (I loved the “The X-factor”! Especially “The Sign of the Cross” and “3 a.m.”), but never really worshiped all of their stuff, although I did most of it…
Outside metal – Dead Can Dance, Depeche Mode, Morphine, Sisters of Mercy, but first and foremost – Queen. I just love everything they ever made.
I dont know if I have one of these bands, i have some guilty pleasures but thats another story… I like everything Black Flag has done but wouldnt they be in the same category as Nasum?
My main point is this; Office Space rules.
I agree with that other guy…megadeath…..I’ll stand by the fact their entire catalogue blows !!
@TheChaosPath – how do I part with music? Very reluctantly. I have given away a couple of boxex of CDs just once, but I should give away all the rest because I absolutely never play from the original discs anymore! However, it’s very hard to part with the physical embodiments of valued music.
I never part with digital copies; who knows when I might get the urge to hear it again? And even if I didn’t like it much until now, I will hear it with different ears next time I get around to listening to it.
Unlike Helm, I don’t want to limit my listening to some inner circle of proven albums. Eventually, if you listen enough times some of the magic seeps away. How I wish I could hear MBV’s Loveless again, the way it sounded to me in the first 20 listens…
There’s an interesting question there, actually… most of the metal I’ve grown to love got better with time. I suspect it’s because I got used to the production and performances and then the composition and details come to the forefront, and when I get used to those I spend a lot of time with lyrics and meanings and imagination, and that never gets old for me. And there’s records that just keep on giving on the compositional level. Voivod or Watchtower or even Candlemass, when I sit down and actually figure out what they’re playing, there’s a lot of beauty there for me to unearth fifteen years later.
How has Loveless progressed in you, if you don’t mind me asking? Is it a record much more focused on the production approach?
I celebrate Cannibal Corpse’s entire catalog. Even without trying, I’ve basically bought the new stuff as it comes out.
…and Dying Fetus. I don’t even know their entire catalog, but based on what I’ve heard so far I’d defend it sight unseen. take that.
@Helm, I think part of the effectiveness of a piece of music is in that the changes (of tempo, of chord progression, or anything) should be experienced. When you come to know a piece of music too well, you anticipate every change and thus rob it of its intended consequence. So merely by listening to something too much, you are diminishing your own ability to appreciate it correctly. I guess you can compensate by listening more analytically, but it isn’t the same thing anymore.
Loveless is a kind of special case – it really is a sonic sculpture as much as a piece of music. When I first heard it, and for some time after that, I mainly listened to the tonal aspects of the music. Sure, I would pick up the melodies and feel the drums, but the thing that held my attention was the sound itself. Now that I have heard it so many times, my hearing has adjusted and I no longer find anything to concentrate on in the sound itself, and the remainder is still fine, but hardly compelling. It’s as if I bought a painting and tore it to parts in my attempts to hang it.
That’s really interesting. I find that the more I learn to anticipate a piece of music through repeated listens (and not just linearly, the best is to have the whole structure of the song mapped internally) the more the music ‘gets’ me. The inevitability of a great composition, the way it takes its turns and twists and arrives at its conclusion and point, it’s intoxicating for me. And it never really is the same or ‘boring’ for me because *I* am not the same (though some could argue, always boring) whenever I listen to it. The interaction with great Dionysian art keeps it alive always.
KMFDM
I celebrate Motley Crue’s entire catalogue. Even Generation Swine.
+1 for Napalm Death. A couple of dodgy releases in the 90’s but still there bad albums are still better than most bands good albums.
+1 for Anthrax also. I really like there mid/late 90’s albums. Allot of people didn’t but I enjoyed them and still listen to them. There isn’t an album they have done I don’t enjoy.
Dream Theater: Will stand up for there entire catalogue, although I feel a little bit gay when I listen to some of there earlier albums.
Carcass: Swansong was rubbish in many peoples eyes (and I feel a little dirty listning to it) but I’ll celebrate the lot.
Not sure why someone would call prong at any stage nu-metal. Its not like Machine head or Fear Factory who did actually play around (and sometimes till do) with nu-metal.
their. Their. THEIR! D’:
Reading this thread way too late but definitely interested in checking out some of the bands I’ve only heard pieces of their catalog.
I’m with some of the other folks – Maiden is my first choice, though I actually couldn’t stand Fear of the Dark (not mentioned here) and I still don’t think I’ve listened to Virtual XI straight through, though I thought Blaze did a good job on individual tracks that were better suited for his voice (Virus, Lord of the Flies). In the weak moments, the Harris/Murray rhythm and melody combo still carries me through, even though it doesn’t feel like Maiden without Smith on the track.
For Maiden, I would throw Testament in the ring because they haven’t been mentioned before. Even though Souls of Black was a weak record and The Ritual was a different record, the core of Billy/Peterson is gold, and even when Skolnick wasn’t in the band they had good/great replacements. I could stand to listen to the weaker records, and the best albums are killer.
Non-Metal: Springsteen. I know non-listeners peg him for just the commercial singles from the 80s, but if you try him out, you find an artist who has evolved in so many ways, tried so many styles, revisits his work in solo and band contexts (including the rock band, the 15 piece raucous seeger sessions band, etc), and actually writes a lot of quality songs that end up unreleased or b-sides that he can still recall to play live. Tours routinely feature more than *150 songs* from the back catalogue, including stuff that’s requested on the spot that he’s not played for 30 -35 years. It compels fans to delve deeply into the catalogue and love tracks that didn’t even make it on the album, let alone the radio (see “Thundercrack”).
The only bands I can stick up for aren’t even metal bands:
Black Flag – especially In My Head
Flipper – the new album was good
Ween – not one fucking misstep, give The Pod a listen if you’ve never heard this band before, its still the creepiest and most inspiring album I own, I can’t think of a single shitty album