Watain’s reputation precedes them. Blood (gallons of it)! Animals (heads of them)! Dissection riffs (lots of them)! The formula has made Watain the black metal band of the moment. Decibel put them on the cover of issue #69 (order here). Maryland Deathfest made them headliners. Their new album Lawless Darkness
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What is the mission of Watain?
The mission of Watain, first and foremost, is to find a complete outlet for the things that we have within us. If you live with a beautiful partner for your whole life that you hold genuine affection [for], then you would not want to go through that [relationship] without expressing your feelings for your partner. We have the same kind of feeling inside of us for what people often call the devil. The dark nature within us – we have a genuine affection for it, and we need to express that. We need to put that into music.
Some musicians say they play metal in order to displace this dark side – they direct it into the music instead of their everyday lives, where they might instead commit crimes or do bad things. Do you disagree with this view?
Well, we commit crimes and do bad things, and then we write music about it. That’s the difference. To me, it would be very hard to express something that I didn’t feel was entirely me, that was something that I wanted to get rid of, because then the music would be a focus on something that I didn’t want in my life. But Watain – that is a celebration of all these things. It is our way of expressing our passion for it and our dedication to it. It’s a natural outcome of the life that we lead. So I am probably 180 degrees opposite to that kind of thinking. To me, the dark side is nothing that should be exorcised. It’s something that should be evoked and furthered, enhanced in any way possible, because it’s the only thing in my life that I feel has a true meaning.
What are some of these crimes and “bad things”?
These kinds of questions are natural, and they are valid, of course, with a band like Watain. But you must also understand that if this would have been an image thing for us, then maybe I could come up with all sorts of cool things. But right now we’re talking about things that are very serious to us, things that we build our lives upon. They are not to be “cool stories” or what some bad boys do in their spare time. Just rest assured that the energy that Watain manages to bring forth stems from experiences that reflect the same kind of energy. This is something we are always on the lookout for. Watain is one way to live these things. But there are many other ways as well. We are all what normal people would consider to be outlaws or enemies of society. We have to be. I think it’s the natural destiny of anyone deeply into this kind of art.
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Photo by Tor Johnsson
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Do you support all evil, then?
We’re talking about a very general concept here. The evil that people view as [such] – yes, probably. Why? Because the evil is often the force that breaks down law and order. It is the force that drags people over thresholds. It is the force that makes people realize that there is more to it than the illusions of everyday life. These things are important. There is a reason why there is an attraction to them, even in the heart of a regular man. They mean opportunity, they mean potential, they explorations of things unknown. They are breaking down the patterns of creation as we know it. In that sense, I support it fully.
Given what you said about law and order, if I break into your house and take something, would you not want the Swedish police to catch me and put me in jail?
No, I would want to catch you myself.
What’s the difference?
There’s a big fucking difference, because the police represent a system of illusive law and order that I do not support to any extent at all. My loss [is] not their loss. Their punishment [is] not my punishment. These things, when they happen to me, I prefer to take care of myself, because I am my own law, and I am my own society. I live in my own world, and that’s how I prefer to keep it. That’s the way I built up my life. So I’m much more of an eye-for-an-eye kind of person – or let’s say head-for-an-eye.
Do you think the world would be better off if all six billion people lived this way?
Yes, definitely, because it would shorten its long and painful process to total extermination. (Laughs) But I’m not very interested in the course of the world as such. I’m much more focused on [how] I and my brothers live our lives. The world is not a very interesting place to me at all. It can go about its own business. I know where it’s going, anyway.
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Photo by Tor Johnsson
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When did you first encounter the dark nature?
The minute I was born, I assume. If you’re talking about when I realized who I was deep inside, I assume that it took place in my early teens. When you start to realize who you are and you start to question the things around you, that’s a very delicate point in life. Most people explore these things for a little while, and then they move on into the safety of society and the safety of their confines that I view as a prison existence. There are a lot of nice and comfortable things to lean back [on], and the human mind is shaped that way. The human mind is meant to appreciate comfort and safety. But the part of me that led me into the opposite [direction], that part is not human in that sense. That part comes from somewhere else. That part is the only part of me that I view as relevant.
What were some of these teenage explorations?
Like always, there was a lot of hell-raising going on, literally. I don’t know if it was really the actions themselves – exploring how it was to break the law, or how it was to indulge in perversion, or how it was to indulge in violence – these kinds of things, of course, shaped me in a certain way. The main transformation was one that happened within me. My general outlook on life changed. Eventually that outlook came to color every important decision that I made in my life. Physically that meant to live outside of society, within my own world. [We] tried to build up strong walls around our own confines that later became the brotherhood of Watain. That was one of the results of my delving into these things.
Erik Danielsson on Watain and animals
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How did animals enter the presentation of Watain?
I’ve been doing a lot of interviews [in] these last [few] days, and we keep coming back to this subject. People seem to think that there is this shock value behind us using dead animals. There are animal activists who complain about this and that, and there is this taboo about Watain’s show. But people have to widen their concept about all this. These things have been used throughout all of mankind’s existence as a way to commune with something that is greater than life. What we’re using is, as the way I see it onstage, not a bunch of dead animals. People like to refer to it as roadkill. Who cares?
The important thing is that it has lived, and now it is dead. And therefore it represents a state of in-between. It represents a state of putrefaction that is very relevant in the magickal context, in the context where you actually can correspond with something that is beyond life, that is beyond reality. That is what these things are onstage for. They make gateways into something greater than life, something that lies beyond life. That is why they are there. That is why we use the blood. It is an ointment that has these qualities as well. That is something that people do not understand. These things – they do not mean any kind of controversy to us. They are a way for us to establish a connection with the power behind Watain.
If you asked most metalheads about Watain – “candles, darkness, animal sacrifice” – they would say, “Cool!”
I hope so!
Has any metalhead actually resisted Watain’s presentation?
You’re asking me if any metalhead [has] resisted. And I would say that if people resist, they are not metalheads. Then they are fucking wimps. But of course, to most people Watain will be an artistic expression that they can have a stance about, that they can have their own opinion about. If people don’t like the way we do things…I mean, I don’t like Manowar. We all have our own tastes. But what I find strange is when people come and say, this is too much, I prefer Emperor, who don’t do shit for me. OK, fuck off, you know!
To me, metal has always been about something real, something that you can almost touch because it’s so real in its energy. Look at the foundation of black metal. Look at Bathory and Venom and Mercyful Fate and Celtic Frost. They had an energy about them that [makes] the hair on my arms stand up when I think about it. Where has this [energy] gone? It should always be present, by any means possible. That’s one of our aims with Watain, to make that force come alive again.
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What would you say to atheists who say that there is neither God nor Satan?
I don’t know if I’d have that much to say to them. They do not really interest me. I’d much rather discuss with a Christian or with someone that at least has a more spiritual conception of reality. I don’t really have anything to discuss with these kinds of people. They don’t really mean much to me. It’s like talking to a wall, in a way. I’m not here to enlighten atheists. It’s their own loss that they have not come further in their spiritual search, or that they [haven't] even indulged in one. They are welcome to listen to our music, but if they want to talk about the concept of it, then they have to loosen their atheist minds and open up for a different perception of reality. Otherwise, what’s there to discuss? I have other things to do.
So there’s an element of faith involved.
Definitely.
If you went deaf, what would you do instead of music?
(Pauses for a while) Hard to say. Being totally focused that I am on Watain, it’s one of these things that I don’t ponder too often. I live too much in the now, and [am] too much focused on what I’m doing now to think about what would happen if everything went to shit. But I always manage to overcome obstacles. With Watain, we have always managed to eliminate all obstacles that have come in our path. We have had members that couldn’t come on the tours. Then we just rearranged the lineup a bit. We had members having to go to the hospital 10 minutes before the show, but we still did the show. We always managed to be victorious. The devil always wins in some way.
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Trident Arts work, L-R: Black Breath logo; The Devil's Blood, Bloodline, Necrophobic, Nifelheim album covers
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You have a graphic design business called Trident Arts. What is your art background?
If you’re talking about education, I don’t really have any, apart from being deeply into that whole thing for as long as I can remember. I’ve always been attracted by strong graphics that speak to me. That’s pretty much the only reason why I became involved in it. It was just a natural thing, just like getting involved in music. I’m totally self-learned. I’m happy that way, actually. It’s the same thing with music. I never went to any musical classes and so on. To me, it puts limitations [on] creativity. I want to explore [things] myself, and I want to become an artist on my own. I haven’t really bothered about reading books about art – how to perform art. I’d rather just do it. I think that’s when you get the most genuine result.
What were some of your early visual reference points?
Of course, a youth filled with drowning in album covers, sitting, staring at the Blood Fire Death cover by Bathory or Iron Maiden covers or the first Black Sabbath album. I’ve been staring at those albums so much, I know them by detail [by heart]. I think that made my foundation. These very rich graphical expressions within metal have always been the ones that attracted me the most. I should also add that I’ve always been more attracted to the rougher and more DIY kind of stuff. I think that’s the perfect representation of death and black metal to me. I like it when it doesn’t look clean. Metal is not clean music.
These days many people download MP3’s without looking at liner notes or artwork. I talked to Tom G. Warrior yesterday, and he wasn’t bothered by this at all. He said that someone should listen to his music and be able get the power just from that without looking at the liner notes or artwork. What do you think about that?
No, I’m not sure if I would agree. I see Tom’s point. Maybe we have a slightly different opinion about this, though. We have a different approach to it in our art. Now, I know that Tom is one that cares deeply about the graphic side of things as well, obviously, if you look at the Celtic Frost albums. Of course, Watain’s music is powerful enough on its own. But I’m still opposed to the idea of someone that’s completely unaware of what graphic and what lyrical context the music should be expressed within. I feel a bit uncomfortable with that thought. I think I will never come to [agree] with these people that just are downloading albums and listening to them at their computer. I think they don’t see the whole totality of Watain coming through in that sense.
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What do you feel about people who listen to your music and buy Watain shirts, but don’t believe the same things that you do?
You’re referring to probably 90% of the people who appreciate Watain, to be honest. We are privileged to have a big fanbase that absolutely cares about our standpoint and what we are trying to express. But to say that they understand it the way we do – it’s a bit far-fetched to me. I’m confident that we ourselves have managed to create something that we can stand behind fully. We present that to people because we want to spread it. But the way it is taken in by others – that is really not up to us. It’s up to everyone to find what they like in Watain. I just know myself that I am doing exactly the kind of band that I myself would want to take part [of]. If other people just like the idea or just some songs, it’s just the way things go.
What are you listening to these days?
I’ve been listening to quite a lot of new music lately, for some strange reason. But [it's] new music that sounds old, obviously, because I am not a big fan of modern music in general. I’ve been listening a lot to a band from Sweden called Ghost, which is a fantastic, kind of ’70s progressive rock band with a very dark and sinister lyrical theme. I think a lot of people will hear more about them soon. They’re just about to record their first full-length album. Repugnant from Sweden is another band I’ve been listening a lot to. It’s like the bastard child between Kill ‘Em All with Metallica and Altars of Madness with Morbid Angel. It’s fantastically vintage-sounding death metal, completely wild and untamed. It’s amazing.
Other than that, it’s a lot of classics. I always come back to Master of Puppets, the Mercyful Fate albums, Bathory, this really classic stuff that is timeless, that will never go away. That’s the kind of album that we aimed to do with Lawless Darkness. We don’t have any smaller intentions than that. It’s time for black metal to have another classic album, you know? There hasn’t been many, but it’s about time, I think, that someone took that upon their shoulders. This genre has been lacking monuments for far too long.
“Reaping Death”, from Lawless Darkness
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I think some people have been trying. I think Funeral Mist and Marduk have tried.
I would definitely say that Funeral Mist have succeeded. I would say that Dissection and Nifelheim succeeded, too. I don’t think that black metal has been dead since Bathory, not at all. But it’s still strange to me how few of the black metal albums that have come out during the last 10 years have actually been extraordinary. But Funeral Mist is definitely one of them.
If Watain had unlimited resources, what would you do that you have not done so far?
We would get a stage that was big enough to hold six billion corpses. Then we would arrange six billion human corpses and put them on the stage, and then we would play the last Watain show ever on that stage. And then we would probably go and have a drink at headquarters, and drink to the world’s end.
Would you join the corpses afterwards?
No, we would probably shuffle them in their own grave, and then we would find a more suitable place for a graveyard of kings.
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Awesome insightful interview. Thanks Cosmo. I got to say, last week I put on this expensive headphones and listened to Casus Luciferi and what a difference trip that it is. I recommend this to everyone. The music was just taken to another level. This is an awesome band and this dude is one well-spoken metalhead. That said, their image has gotten a bit too glossy for me (what with the colored contact lenses, etc) , but you know, music rules anyway.
I still see what parts of his ideology are being revealed, as very traditional; very Western, very adolescent…with regard to Evil. Maybe I don’t understand this? Can anyone help me to understand this?
I’ve been listening to all three albums this week. Really diving in. Hmmm…
Nice interview. Kudos especially for trying to get Danielsson to push beyond generalities in articulating his philosophy, though he insisted on remaining vague about what exactly for him constitutes “evil.”
I’ve read other interviews with the guy, and sometimes he comes across as incoherent. In the recent interview over at Haunting the Chapel, for example, he says, in response to a question about the genre’s increasing hybridization and lack of “purity,” that “[t]he mere thought that ‘purity’ –- which I equal to honesty and dignity — would not matter to someone into art as integrity-based as Black Metal (should be), pisses me off.” Then, later on in the same interview, in response to a question about _Lawless Darkness_ in particular, he says that “is not an album made out of external rules and regulations, rather the opposite. Art is one of the few realms in this filthy world where the freedom of expression still exists, and we aim to take full use of that. To the misfortune of many a civilized human, as well as the black metal purists.”
I know consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds and all, but that seems like a fairly significant contradiction to me.
One of the better interviews I’ve read lately – great job!
The questions are interesting, the evasive answers are not.
Q: “What are some of these crimes and “bad things”?”
A: “blah, blah, blah, evil, evil, evil, blah, blah, blah”
Can’t he just say his music is intended to be evil and that he likes to do the acting as mostly everyone else? I don’t get this evil pose anymore, there’s no subtlety or authenticity in what he says. Probably the music will stand to his statements, but his discourse is weak and scattered.
Maybe I should listen to Watain’s music before saying this, but I was kind of annoyed since the very beggining of the interview. It looks so lame and harmless…
Reading his answers is like reading an actor convey scripted lines, repeated so many times in front of the mirror that they’ve internalized them fully. I make this judgment call only because I’ve seen Watain speak to the camera too. Had I only read interviews of them I’d be much more willing to take them at face value. Of course I take them seriously, I take everyone seriously. I just find it hard to not look behind the mask when so much of the face is showing. Perhaps I wouldn’t have if the mask were more fascinating to me but it’s a mask anyone that listens to romantic types of metal has been exposed to for at least a couple of decades now… I remember King Diamond trying to navigate the same issues between masquarade and honesty for example, though he fared better in front of the camera because he was willing to say ‘I’m not sure about that, I wonder about it myself’.
I’m sure Watain thinks their credo true when they go into ‘interview mode’ but then you look at Watain talk to a pretty girl for a youtube interview and you see the method actor missing his lines, be self-conscious, uncomfortable and human. In a way it’s interesting, the actor/persona distinction being made so clearly plain, in another way it highlights the intellectual dead-end that black metal can arrive to when it doesn’t temper its inherent romanticist aspect with the human caveat, something that frankly, William Blake or Lord Byron never seemed to consider desirable. The desire for Total Immersion in a romantic idea of noble savagery (in black metal) is a reaction to a decade of fluffy theatrical and awful play-acting metal that has sickened me as much as it has sickened Watain or anyone else into Heavy Metal for life. But Romanticism (from where all this HM business stems from) was a reaction to ideas of Total Immersion in *anything*, it was a reaction to rationalism and enlightened systems of belief, it was a reaction towards making sense, it was about unspoken unfathomable awe of nature and life and death. It’s no wonder that poetry was the first language used to express the Romantic ideal and not, you know, interviews. Watain may make poetry for their records but in their trying to retain the persona in their interview here in plainspeak come off more like a D&D Dungeon Master explaining their house-rules for variable saving throws against wands and staves.
It’s not enough to tell people you are for real over and over again nor is it prudent to convince oneself they are for real through ‘dirty deeds’. The doubt that one is for real is to be cherished. Romanticism is the quintessential tall order, everyone will fall short of it and that’s why there is AWE, that’s what inspires great imagination and art, to be able to gaze into the face of an unknown god in a fever dream, not to try to convince pedestrians that you’re a god yourself in real life. Doubt, about what you are here to do, how to communicate it and what roles other people might play is a good thing as it leads to a vital vague space where reinterpretation, reinvention and empathy can occur. The fallacy of ‘I do bad things therefore I am for real’ concept could be gathered from the history of Norwegian black metal in the ’90s, yet it seems to inspire new metal musicians still.
Like pseudonymous says above, contradictions are found in everyone but it’s the sign of emotional development to find a way to incorporate human fallibility and uncertainty in a working outlook on life and art. It is through that common lens that people may communicate anything higher (or lower) than basic credo of ‘this is good’ and ‘that is bad’. The sense I get from Watain talking here is of the highschool metalhead that is trying to come up with an ‘airtight’ heavy metal persona that can withstand any and all public scrutiny, a shield against the Other. My pop-psychoanalysis here is not meant to insult Watain; I can spot this because I’ve tried very hard at some point in my life to do this as well. Their shield is not perfect (almost nobody’s would be, best I’ve seen is by Laibach) and I wonder what happens to the hardest oyster when it’s being pried open by the cuel hundred arms of the titan that is society. Do they always gather and beat up the fellow that decided to mock them on stage? Will they beat me up when they play a show in Greece and someone points me out to them? What if I were a disarmingly pretty girl that wanted to film them for an interview for a Greek music channel?
Watain thinks they’re their own society but they’re not. They live in a bigger society that tolerates them like anyone else. I’m not saying this to side with the society at all, mind you, I’m on anyone who is self-willed’s side, I listen to Heavy Metal! But we have to be smart about it, you know, acknowledge that Others are more like us than we’d like to think. I wonder if they realize that what they say about being outside of society is somewhat false (I can sort of see the point that being a touring musician that lives off of it is in some ways the last ‘outlaw’ activity there is besides outright banditry) or if, coming from a ‘I just played an awesome live show’ high they really believe it, at least in-persona. In the former case it’s slightly unscrupulous to sell a way of life that you know to be false to your fans (and that’s not the only merchandise that Watain sell that I find unscrupulous). In the latter case the illusion that they are real outlaws will lead to strange situations for them whenever they try to mix with society in any other capacity than ‘evil metal band now touring *your town*’.
I dunno. Every morning, I check CNN, MSNBC, Reuters, BBC, The Guardian. It would seem irrefutable to me that the mainstream World Culture is a cornucopia of Christ-raping, knuckle-dragging, godless pigfucking chaos. It would be an adolescent delusion to believe otherwise. To conceptualize that there is a good and a norm being pursued is ridiculous… So if you are standing in “diabolical opposition” to the way of the world is just, well…silly!
Helm: Brilliant. Perfect. Done!
Helm: Exactly right. It’s a posture, albeit one that is deeply felt by this guy. I can’t take him seriously until he acknowledges that the whole thing is to a certain extent a performance.
“very Western, very adolescent…with regard to Evil. Maybe I don’t understand this? Can anyone help me to understand this?”
He’s deeply attached to those feelings he first had as an adolescent when he listened to Venom, and is spending his adult life trying to recapture them ( while his peers are able to, uh, move on.)
I find it sort of annoying that his adolescent conception of “evil” is basically the only thing that one can use to transcend the lameness of their surroundings. It’s a total lack of imagination to match a really impoverished diagnosis of his surroundings.
Retarded, really. I mean that in the literal sense.
Right on , Chris Dalton.
Good Lord, Helm.
But RE: your post, yeah…pretty much.
The problem with bands that do the whole “I’m always in character” BS these days is that’s no longer what people are looking for in metal. Well, most of them. They see through it immediately and so it just looks silly.
I’ll never understand why this band is so popular…but that’s just me, I guess.
I’m in agreement with most of the comments here. What Watain and other BM bands call Satanism often sounds to me like the nihilist individualism of present-day capitalism–i.e., get yours and fuck everybody else. I’d argue that far from being revolutionary or subversive, that’s the logic that makes the world go.
I have to say, too, that I was a little disappointed that Cosmo didn’t ask ED about whether he and his bandmates beat up DRI’s bass player at MDF. Talk about adolescent.
All that said, _Lawless Darkness_ is a solid album, and that’s really all that matters to me.
Right, I think if the society that Watain imagines it opposes were as hegemonic as they imagine it to be, society would—and could— simply crush them. The fact is, what is left of our culture is basically a marketplace, managed by secularists. The official view would probably be that Watain represent valuable “self expression”, while the marketplace loves anything that can be bought and sold, including adolescent fantasies of empowerment through alienation.
That is to say, if Watain were a real threat to the social order, the social order would not tolerate them.
Well, a part of it is that whole post-9/11 thing. Fake evil seems kind of silly in the light of what’s going on in the world right now…even for metal guys.
“the marketplace loves anything that can be bought and sold, including adolescent fantasies of empowerment through alienation”
Don’t forget Watain-branded lighters and T-shirts.
This dude’s responses are as much of a half-baked hodgepodge as Watain’s songs, so at least he’s consistent.
Agreed with Helm re: “The sense I get from Watain talking here is of the highschool metalhead that is trying to come up with an ‘airtight’ heavy metal persona that can withstand any and all public scrutiny,”
Someone trying so hard to protect their own reality is one of the least attractive things.
“Right, I think if the society that Watain imagines it opposes were as hegemonic as they imagine it to be, society would—and could— simply crush them. The fact is, what is left of our culture is basically a marketplace, managed by secularists.”
Exactly right. Watain’s philosophical stance is tolerated because it is in keeping with the status quo. Bright individualists persuing market action to a certain level is not only tolerated by the market but actively endorsed. If Watain were trying to do anything else (as a market entity) but sell t-shirts and belt buckles then they’d see the world’s real evil.
Good lord – maybe when I was fourteen. Would it be too drastic to instate some kind of law that bans extreme metallers from reading Nietzsche or anything derivate therefrom (goodbye “Satanic Bible”!)? I’d like to see a day when David Hume is the metal philosophy guru de jure…I’m sure you could get quite a bit of lyrical badassery out of “‘Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger”, after all.
Wow…… Hahaha I wish I put this much thought into stuff! It’s just entertainment after all I’m sure when Erik Danielsson gets home from a tour he feeds his dog/cat jumps into his stretchy pants maybe makes a peanut butter sandwich, pops a movie on albeit a satanic movie then brushes his teeth and calls it a day.
See Type O Negative’s “We Hate Everyone” for an exegesis on this topic.
Great band musically, total childish bullshit hokum ideologically.
Great comments. Re: Chris Dalton – right on. In terms of helping bring about the world’s end, Watain’s got some catching up to do if they want to usurp BP as current contenders for the throne.
Anyone happen to know if the unholy trinity really lives in their practice-space bunker?
Started off as a great interview, but then we got to stuff like this
“It’s like talking to a wall” – funny, that’s how the rest of the world feels when they attempt to educate theists.
I liked, and to an extent agreed with his views on the law and justice, but the rest is pretentious, scripted, stereotyped ignorance.
This interview knocked the band down a couple of pegs in my books; terrible for a fan like myself who was already disappointed in the new album.
I agree, it seems like Danielsson really wants to have an ‘airtight’ Black Metal persona.
I like how Nergal from Behemoth handles the onstage persona when he isn’t onstage. There is none of the pretension that goes on here–like with Watain.
You think he calls his mom when he gets back from tour to let her know that he’s safe and that the tour went well?
To clarify my previous comment, I’m not against bands marketing themselves. I’m a fan of Maiden and (to a lesser extent) KISS, two bands that have affixed their brand to just about every conceivable type of merchandise. Not incidentally, Maiden and KISS (along with Alice Cooper) are also the architects of the theatrical stage show of which Watain puts on a more “extreme” (e.g., real rather than fake blood) version. Like others here, I just don’t find Watain’s po-corpse-painted-faced insistence that they are somehow different to be terribly convincing.
If the CEO of BP put out a one-man black metal record, would people here buy it?
His comment about “six billion corpses on a stage” is just… Dethklok-ian. I wish I could tap into that level of absurdity every time I’m asked a question.
Well at least this interview engendered some comments…
If the CEO of BP put out a one-man black metal record, would people here buy it?
If it was called “Fistraping God’s Earth” it would probably at least be worth a rapidshare.
@Graeme — two seriously funny comments, especially the first. And I think Helm could spar with my college professor who taught the dense class on “Being and God.”
One of the most interesting threads I’ve read in a long time.
Watain has managed to find a way to commodify their evil: the new album is being sold in a limited edition that includes a pendant; a special deck of Tarot cards designed by E; a black candle and a (black) flag.
It’s all wrapped in a leather book and apparently has already sold out:
http://e-shop.season-of-mist.com/en/catalog/show/23403
Honestly, I don’t know where to begin.Wow. This guy takes the word generic to a whole new level. Equally amazing is that some people buy this horseshit (thankfully, the good people commenting here, for the most part, don’t). It always baffles me that some extreme bands from Scandinavia seem to have the most extremely uneducated and ignorant views of things–I’d like to see this fuckface last two minutes in Detroit, Baltimore or any other rough city for 2 minutes. The only thing he’s done is to expose himself as the selfish hamfisted corpsepainted douchewad capitalist that he is. No more exposure for this dimwitted moneygrubber or his band, please.
So he has those strong, tough-guy beliefs regarding the legal system. But Watain held off on the blood and guts-spewing at Maryland Death Fest. I think I remember him muttering something about “the law” as to why they weren’t performing the whole “ritual.” Anybody else who was there remember that? Just want to make sure I’m remembering this correctly.
He might have a tough time keeping up his black metal persona in Baltimore County Jail anyway.
This is exactly the kind of warped solipsism that sets capital M Metal back over and over and over again. Expecting musicians to have higher standards is yes, naive, but giving people like this a mouthpiece is just stupid. Equally stupid is trying to assess this guy (and his “extreme” views) for anything more than he is—a person who craves attention as much as he craves his own company.
Tony Hayward the one-man black metal band now exists and has a bandcamp. I don’t have the capability to record vocals right now so if anybody is interested get in touch.
http://tonyhayward.bandcamp.com/
A group of drinkin’ buddy swedes (with you typical swede black humor, practically a national treasure) taking the piss with a straight face. Of course, anybody older than 20 is gonna see right through it.
As far as ‘being evil’, dude probably doesn’t mow his lawn on Sundays or violates Swedish building code by installing venetian blinds in his windows.
I do like the music though. Good stuff.
Graeme – That is beyond awesome. Make sure that the contact functionality on the right side of the Bandcamp works, and I’ll tell people about it.
The contact form should work, and if anybody can make art for it (a header, a picture of Tony Hayward in corpsepaint, etc), that would be cool too.
@raiseyerfists – I was at MDF and they used blood ( it got all over me and a few other people). The “law” comments where about their touring guitarist, Set, not being able to get into the country…. for what I don’t know.
@Helm – As always sir, you’re spot on. Seriously, I feel like you should be writing books or something. Such accurate observations should not be left alone.
@a_good_chunk_of_everyone_else – Some of you are taking the criticism too far, which I can understand if you don’t like Watain or Black Metal in general. Still, with Erik providing such an extreme in one direction it doesn’t help to see you pull in the exact opposite. How tiring is it to hear the 100th person complain about Black Metal and compare it to an urban drug and violence filled world that seems the only thing discussed in most Rap albums. Why are you posting on something about Metal?
Watain may be delusional and full of themselves, but they still make some of the best Black Metal around (compared with the far more “safe”[I hate this word, but you've all brought it into the context now] urban post-rock-post-black-metal hipster bands).
@Graeme: I love that you took a smart-ass comment I made on a message board and turned it into something that will likely redefine metal as we know it today. If Black Metal Tony Hayward weren’t such a resolutely misanthrophic individualist, I would ask to join his band.
Suggested song title: “The Gulf Is a Very Big Ocean, and It’s Filled with My Blackest Hate.”
I feel like journos could easily call out their so-called “evil” interviewees by asking them to ‘defend the indefensible’ and see what happens… By which I mean, when confronted with someone like this dude, who swears he’s evil up and down, why not ask him his stance on child rape? The only “evil” response is to support and promote the act, yet to do so would likely end his career. Not calling anyone to task for NOT posing the question, or one like it, but I would love to see this guy or a million other postured musicians try to backpedal their way out of such a discussion.
And to defend child rape would put him in line with the Catholic Church–not very kvlt, that.
ishouldbeking – I thought of such questions, but unfortunately after the interview. His initial example of an affectionate relationship is telling. Also, if he were pure evil, he wouldn’t be in a “brotherhood” with his bandmates.
“I feel like journos could easily call out their so-called “evil” interviewees by asking them to ‘defend the indefensible’ and see what happens… By which I mean, when confronted with someone like this dude, who swears he’s evil up and down, why not ask him his stance on child rape? The only “evil” response is to support and promote the act, yet to do so would likely end his career”
I guess that proves that the Brainbombs (also Swedish) are more evil than Watain. If you don’t believe me, listen to the title track off of their _Obey_ record, and then spend the rest of your life trying to scrub it from your brain.
I just went back to read a few Q&A’s that I skipped over initially and I have to say that despite all else I find painfully distasteful about most of his musings, this was pleasing to see:
“What do you feel about people who listen to your music and buy Watain shirts, but don’t believe the same things that you do?
You’re referring to probably 90% of the people who appreciate Watain, to be honest. We are privileged to have a big fanbase that absolutely cares about our standpoint and what we are trying to express. But to say that they understand it the way we do – it’s a bit far-fetched to me. I’m confident that we ourselves have managed to create something that we can stand behind fully. We present that to people because we want to spread it. But the way it is taken in by others – that is really not up to us. It’s up to everyone to find what they like in Watain.”
That’s an aspect I was happy he shed light on, and I actually found his answer surprising coming from a self-appointed master of kvlt.
@pseudonymous: “The Gulf Is a Very Big Ocean, and It’s Filled with My Blackest Hate.”
I laughed so loudly when I saw this!
Cosmo, you should make Helm a regular contributer/writer here (I mean outside the comments). He would take things to a whole ‘nother level.
Most have said what I would say re: Erik’s “image” and pretension. However, I will say this– I’m not so huge on “traditional” or “pure” BM, and I think Sworn to the Dark is a brilliant, powerful record.
I also don’t know about Helm being an official contributor on IO. He’s quite articulate and makes great points (like the ones above that I agree with substantially), but one thing he doesn’t do is economize verbiage. Cosmo and crew do, and that’s part of what makes this site great. It’s the textual equivalent of Bruce Lee’s economy of motion.
Or hell, hire him and throw us a curveball. I don’t know.
Coming in very late in the discussion, I have very little to add that hasn’t already been said, but I’ve very much enjoyed the comments. I did find myself actually quite angered, though, by Danielsson’s dismissal of atheism. His brush off puts him squarely in line with creationists; therefore, he is a religious fundamentalist and is irrational.
Danielsson is a gifted artist trying to compensate for the lack of an education with a boastful, constructed edifice that has all of the structural integrity of a house of cards.
Fuck “economize verbiage.” Text is cheap. Go wide or go home. Fuck twitter encapsulation. Life is too short for short recaps or ideas. Short = pithy? Not even. Full, weighty shotgun blast of everything worth saying or nothing…hail the Gibbons who know the art of stretching with full dexterity for lonely women sitting in window boxes wishing for a better tomorrow. Nietzsche could do short as abyss-concentrating. The rest of you are just fucking lazy. The world ended, most yawned and scrolled out a few Twitter updates.
Helm should be a full contributor. Votes? He’s paid his dues.
“The Gulf Is a Very Big Ocean, and It’s Filled with My Blackest Hate.”
Suggestion taken. And I bought a vocal mic.
RE: “therefore, he is a religious fundamentalist and is irrational.”
Sure.
Is he a gifted artist? Not even close. C’mon people, search for the real thing.
When Watain REALLY get pissed off at you they don’t jump you 5 to 1 at a metal fest. They drag you deep into a hole and rip off Dissection in front of you.
They’re a Kiss cover band who forgot to change their underwear.
*Yawn*
“‘The Gulf Is a Very Big Ocean, and It’s Filled with My Blackest Hate.’
Suggestion taken.”
This may be my proudest moment. Now how the hell do I access the bandcamp page?
I stand by my opinion of the music, but I also get the yawn factor. Are Watain the “best black metal band?” Not even close, but we could argue in circles endlessly for hours.
An artist knows how to push people’s emotional buttons, even if the greater intention is to sell trinkets. In that, Watain succeed (but, then again, so does Billy Milano).
If someone mentions some USBM band as the best Black Metal band I’m going to think you’re an idiot and take another shot of whiskey. At least I’m truthful on that front.
Anyway, to add further context…. here’s a recent interview of Erik answering questions in person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fn5PD-G0ms
@Graeme — You are on fire today, sir. Thank you for making me laugh my ass off. If you can find a vocalist I’d be happy to chip in some lyrics for your masterpiece.
@UA — Dave has a point. Gifted artist is a broad enough term to apply to a number of musicians. Johnny Ramone wasn’t a technically talented musician but I’d say you are gifted if you can write a bunch of songs that never leave the memory bank once they’ve been played. If Erik didn’t have some talent — a gift — no one would have bothered to listen to a Watain record and this post wouldn’t have led to so many comments.
Now, musical “genius” is a term that is overused and rarely applicable. Only a select crew makes that list: Mozart, Brian Wilson, Muddy Waters, Mingus, Zappa, Iommi…Mick Harris
UA: Jesus! Didn’t mean to strike any nerves, man. I just like how Cosmo and his cohorts’ writing stands in stark contrast to, say, Lamentations of the Flame Princess.
@Justin,
RE: “If Erik didn’t have some talent — a gift — no one would have bothered to listen to a Watain record and this post wouldn’t have led to so many comments.”
“Gifted” is relative. I mean, one man’s “interesting” is another man’s yawn. It’s okay, don’t worry about it.
Besides, there are only two real reasons Watain creates debate: 1, the hype and the distance between what it states and the reality of the music, and 2, the collapse of “inchoate” evil RE: what metal fans ask from their bands (old, dead tradition, Watain is the summing up of this need coming to a bloody, embarrassing end), and a need for metal to embrace reality. Outside of the tired cliche of the “socio-political” RE: ’80s thrash, no…what’s needed now are simply bands who rock. They’re meaningless anyway, they’ll never change anything. That time is past and even the old punk guys don’t believe in it. If one wants to be “evil”, be it. Don’t sell lighters and t-shirts. Rape a baby today. Not willing to do that? Stop being a pretentious liar and align yourself with the political. At least try to make yourself relevant. There’s a certain glory in that type of failure even now. At least…it will get you laid. Watain are fakes, poseurs, sorry…all image, no class, no real music, and apparently cowards to boot. Fuck them.
Umm…I guess I’ll lighten the mood here a bit.
I interviewed Erik for my campus paper couple years ago, and I found it hilarious that he had a bunch of porno DVDs on the back of the tour bus. So grimm.
I keep thinking of more potential song titles for Tony Hayward. How about “Mournful Liability”?
A band has to rape babies for them to be legit? That’s a real elaborate way of ensuring you won’t ever have to get caught being a fan of this band in good conscience. I wish people put this much thought into their driving. Anyhow, I think suspending your disbelief is a lot more fun than pointing out the Rice Krispies crumbs under Beherit’s bunk bed.
I gotta say this interview and the shitstorm it causes with folks makes me like Danielsson even more.
This interview makes me lament that every time I ever ignored a blackhead on a dude’s face I could have interviewed it instead.
Great post and even better comments, thanks for reminding me why I keep coming back.
And Helm gets my vote!
Nothing novel to add, but it’s interesting to me that I came here expecting to roll my eyes at Tom Warrior’s interview (based on his blog) and he was this honest, stand-up, humble, smart guy. I read the Watain interview expecting a straightforward Q&A with a minimum of bullshit, and ended up rolling my eyes so far back in my head that I ended up looking at my frontal lobe. Danielsson has a bad case of trying too hard.
@TheWolf: The best black metal band right now is Infernal Stronghold. Let’s duel for black metal’s honor: Grimaces and graveyard posturing at dawn. Bring your own bullet belts.
First, a mighty hail to Dr. Helm, the great iconclast of our time, who so often delivers the ever bitter pill of what is otherwise known as the truth.
As for me, I’m still in mourning at the slow, agonizing demise of Watain.. I knew something was up when I attended their ‘08 NY show fundamentally stoned and realized this was rather “happy and upbeat music”, for Mary Jane is often my bullshit detector.
To be honest, there was significantly more fear in my heart attending a Madball show in 1997 at CBGB’s. People in the Watain crowd were of course not pleased with my loudly vocalized revelation…
So, my advice is to NOT listen to the new album if you value ‘Casus Luciferi’ (the true masterpiece) in spiritually transcendent terms the way I do.
Helm. Wow man. Hail to you.
The only thing he said that stands was: “I’ve been listening a lot to a band from Sweden called Ghost, which is a fantastic, kind of ’70s progressive rock band with a very dark and sinister lyrical theme.”.
They are. With a touch of Mercyful Fate.
On everything else, he tried too hard not to show what is apparent to anyone. That he can’t even convince himself of the story he’s telling.
A great interview!
I did’t read through this thread again, but there’s a pretty funny post on the FMP board (I know) about one of the Watain guys getting beat up by a security guy before they even played. I have no idea if it’s true. I guess they didn’t have a great time in Baltimore. Maybe they should watch The Wire before they come back.
Sounds crazy
I think Helms piece has given me interview comment impotency.Anyway I saw Watain on the cover of Terrorizer magazine and they were dressed wizard hoody style.It made me think of a friends comment about the Lord of the Rings film being like Harry Potter for grown ups.
How cool if they came on stage to Priest’s ‘Breakin the Law’.
Eric once told me that he would be driving down the west coast like “Thelma and Louise” after he was done with his Entarte Kunts show up in Portland.
Helm, you’re an actual homo.
The first real interesting interview that I read about Watain ! The first where Erik is not saying the same old shit about the art cover, the process of composition, his vision of the Black Metal Scene etc… here we can get deeper into Erik philosophy and his way of living. Of course he’ll never tell us what kind of evil he refers to … cause I think it will be a stupid thing to do to reveal in an interview the crimes you’ve committed.
Anyway, thanks a lot for this interview and hail to Watain !!
Their music is admittedly good. It’s a pity that their old-school marketing techniques no longer work in the post-9/11 world, where we’ve already seen enough of real evil already.
Hard to proclaim your all evil when you dress up like the little puppet from SAW, I wonder what it sounds like when he laughs.
I love it when people talk about 9/11 like THE ultimate evil of all time. Please tell me – you who obviously where there – was it painful? No? Then sod off – and call me when there’s a new Holocaust.
http://www.superheavysounds.com/2010/08/8-3-tunes-hoglan-interview-available.html
Watain + Scion = Outlaw Bandits
How’s that working out for them?
The appeal?
Heavy Metal has almost always been about escapism.
Also, who doesn’t love a good supervillian?
What a fucking joker
Those crimes he spoke of were probably just thievery and lies. Those fuckers ripped me off of a t-shirt and cassette I ordered back in 2003. I’ve been waiting for Watain to come close enough to where I live so I can give Erik a taste of his “head for an eye” philosophy. Fucking turds.
I can’t believe how stupid some people can be. This guy is fantastic and (knowingly)hilarious and, more importantly,completely and utterly genuine.