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| by Cosmo Lee |
Invisible Oranges is not a dating advice site, because, you know…heavy metal.
But along comes “bbrian12″ above, and suddenly I want to “help a brother out.” Well, not really. But his plight (in addition to poor spelling and grammar) illustrates a real-life conundrum.
At what point do you tell a love interest/potential mate/significant other of your metal-ness?
When I meet couples where only one person is a metalhead, I always ask at what point such disclosure occurred. The answers are always different and interesting.
I read all 16 pages of bbrian12’s message board thread. (Brain…leaking…slowly…) It comes from a US-wide site that is truly general interest. (A thread started two minutes ago: “We wanna live in Orlando – hear me out…”) The unwashed masses weigh in on all sorts of metalhead dating issues, and it’s fascinating to observe.
With regards to disclosure timing, “cdubs3201″ says:
I am exactly like you and I have this exact same problem. The answer: don’t tell them until deeper in the relationship. Say you like a lot of types of music or just say you like rock. You don’t have to tell them what type of rock (heavy metal is rock). I just don’t bring it up anymore, because it prevented me from getting another date. It’s a flag for women, I don’t know why, but it is, just don’t bring it up.
Poor bbrian12 responds:
very good advice
but…
id rather know now that these people have a problem with my music than after a while when i really like the person.and if they should ever come to my place they are gonna see my cd collection and be like WTF.
Your thoughts?
Related posts:
Actually if she hates you for liking the thing you love then she's not the right woman,am i wrong?
My wife sorta likes most metal, so no problems there. The tricky bit for me wasn't telling her I love Anaal Nathrakh and Pig Destroyer, but that I'm also a big fan of Hank Williams and the Louvin Brothers. Turned out she was fine with that too!
My girlfriend is not really a metal person but she likes bits since being with me, it never has really been a problem. Anything too heavy for her she just asks me to listen to when she's not around, and I'm alright with that
My wife taught me to listen to Catharsis. Sometimes you win.
My approach to this changed through the years. I remember when I was 18-19 I'd answer to 'what music do you like' with noncommittal or evasive answers (though I avoided the dreaded "rock" like the ideological bankruptcy it is). My hair was long even then so I think I attracted a certain type of woman that was prepared for metal, though. Keep in mind in Greece HM is very much alive so if you meet teenagers with long-ass hair here it's more probable that they bang their head for Mercyful Fate than them being groomed metrosexuals of the semi-longhair variety, but it coincided with problems I had with how I viewed myself at the time ("am I a metalhead?" etc) didn't want to be part of any herd, although most of the music I listened to then was Heavy Metal. It didn't help that most of the HM people I had met were very disappointing and I had absolutely no interest in being part of their 'scene'.
I remember trying to get girlfriends from 16 and up to 3 years ago or so to appreciate what I loved about certain bands, I've written massive mixtapes/cds and so on. Sometimes it worked to a degree. At some point I was fortunate enough to be with a girl who listened to stuff like Adramelch or Psychotic Waltz on her own so that was a productive relationship in the terms of getting the desire to appreciate the same artistry together.
After that I no longer demand 'metal appreciation hour' from the people I'm with, but if they ask I still write them "hello, this is me" cds from some of my favorite music but I am not distraught if they're not met with appreciation, I've gotten more than I ever expected to get in that department in the past so it's alright.
As far as telling random people that might ask what I'm listening to for the last 3-4 years I've decided to be very upfront. I say "Heavy Metal" and lock gazes. That one taxi-driver was trying to make conversation and he asked me what I was listening to on my mp3 playing and I said "it is Immortal. A black metal band from Norway. This record is 'Diabolical Fullmoon Mysticism'" and it was really difficult to come out with that, heh. To his credit he did then ask a little bit more to understand what that might be.
Taxi-drivers in Greece are a good random encounter though because sometimes they ask and I say the words Heavy Metal and out come the Beneath the Remains and Pleasure to Kill cds and we listen to them together in the car, you never know who's a closet metalhead.
You have to give and take a little when it comes to music in a relationship, really. I think the only girl I've ever dated who was anywhere near close to what I listened to Ozzy and a lot of butt rock – Disturbed, Staind, etc. It's a hard deal. I've essentially just given up on trying to mesh music styles with a significant other. My soon to be wife (six more days, wish me luck!)
loves Salsa music and Russian folk music (she's Russian) pretty much exclusively. There's really no way we I can slip on some Deicide and she be happy about it. We used to have a trade off on long trips with the iPod, but even that became a struggle of compromise and negotiations, so we just don't listen to music in the car anymore. I don't miss it, I hear it when I'm driving on my own. But, I dig the Russian folk music, and I got her liking Three the other day, so there can be a middle ground, I guess
bbrian12 should be concentrating on tagging some pussy and worrying about stupid shit like music later. My old lady hates everything I listen to and I could care less. I don't want to have too many things in common with her. It's more fun that way.
One thing that worked for me was to be upfront about it, but be over the top and seem at first like you might be kind of ironic, and then if things progress you can let it come out that you're actually serious. So when they ask what kind of music you like, rather than say "heavy metal" you might say "tru necro kvlt black metal" or "punishing brutal death metal" and then smile or laugh. Then answer the follow-ups (there will be follow-ups) honestly, but don't make it seem like you take it too seriously. Unless you do take Cannibal Corpse or Mayhem super seriously, and in that case I don't know what to tell you.
The night I met my wife (who is not a metal-listener, I think she likes world music or something?), I was wearing my Nile shirt that says "RAMSES BRINGER OF WAR" on it really huge. I ended up playing off of that as an ice breaker and kind of joking around about how it a bit ("Yes, ancient egyptian metal is one of my favorite genres because it combines things that are loud with things that are dead and scary") and making it seem like kind of a lark. But then as we continued dating I was like, "no actually while some of the imagery can be weird, this music is pretty amazing" and now I'm married to her and she kind of gets what I like about metal and that it doesn't mean I'm psychotic.
Good luck out there, bbrian12.
My wife-to-be doesn't like heavy metal at all but we have other music (jazz, classical, film scores) in common so that's fine. I just listen to metal on my own or else on headphones.
Women stereotype metalheads as unintelligent losers with poor earning potential. It's not fair, but that seems to be how they view it.
However, every girl I've ever dated has not been into metal and I've been very up front about my tastes. I think it hasn't been much of a problem for me because in all other ways, I come across as very intellectual and sensitive and basically the opposite of all the stereotypes (degrees in Physics and Engineering from an Ivy). I also have wide ranging musical tastes so I can usually find some common ground. Long car rides are rough though.
do not get involved with someone who will judge you for you music tastes.
end of line
As a gal who likes some metal (and some classic country, and some alt country, and some…) I rarely bring up my musical tastes because it's so hard to pin down. I like *this* song but not *that* one.
Anyone who's gonna judge you solely for your taste in music is not worth dating. I don't like whole genres of music, but I like songs within genres. Maybe that's the line to use when describing your love of metal.
cookie nailed it, although it's kind of a double-edged sword. I would never date a girl who listened to Disturbed or Staind.
Gotta have a modicum of middle ground, you know?
Girls tends to know about my metal-ness when they meet me. All past girlfriends (and my current one) certainly did, and thought it was "cute" (?) in a nerdy way. Heh, whatever. It's never been my prerogative to date girls with the same tastes in music as me anyway… why would I want to date myself?
I'd totally date the female version of myself. It'd be like psychotherapy only it'd work plus the sex would be amazing.
I don't know any girls that haven't slept with a member of Early Man.
Helm, yr killing me this morning.
Um, I've got one of those I was a 15-yr-old metalhead stories, sorta Pretty in Pinkish. Dated a private school girl at the time. Hair down to where my tail used to be. Slayer and Maiden tees. She hated Metal. But it worked out for a while.
I'm much, much older now. Still wear the Slayer 'n' Maiden tees but the hair is gone. That private school girl still hates Metal. But now she's my wife.
It was probably a good 7-8 years before my wife realized I had so many Scorpions, Priest, and Maiden records. There's kinda a fine line with her…Zep, Sab, and Lizzy are OK. Anything south of there is too metal. I still bought her a Jaymay cd. We make compromises.
More importantly, when is the right time to tell a girl that you're into pegging?
Personally, i think the approach is to not give a fuck. If they ask, i tell them; if they dislike it so much they cant date me, then they weren't worth my time in the first place. Its not really a big deal, if they like you for who you are in the first place. There are thousands of good looking girls on this planet, why would you be a bitch to the pussy just because you wanted them to like you?
anyway, i apply this to friends, dating/dates, etc. It works out well. It leaves ME the responsibility to convince people that my weirdness is actually pretty fun to be around.
Lastly, my girlfriend does not like metal at all, but shes huge on showtime and classical south american music and i don't mind either one.
So many "that's what she said" moments here.
only girls i know who where so shallow to react so based on musical taste are not the kind i would want to date or even pull on a one off. My current lassie mainly likes indie and musicals both of which i detest and she hates a lot of the harsher things i like but its never been an issue with us 'cos we over lap in other areas. and as some one said who wants to date themselves.
Amazingly, I'm dating a girl who started out by "appreciating" Children of Bodom, and, within a week, by moving progressively "weirder" / "darker", she was requesting, "Can you put on that Watain song again…?" When she was not only tolerating but REQUESTING the likes of Watain and Morbid Angel, I knew I'd hit the jackpot.
She is very open minded. That said, we both listen to a huge variety of music including alt country, the entire spectrum of "indie" and all its subgenres, etc., so I think that helps.
Ultimately, if she can see the creativity, philosophic value, or sheer musicianship of/in something, she's likely to dig it.
Some people are just agreeable people, too. Neither of us complain too much… both are likely to go with the flow.
This is a nice end of the week topic.
I think its the same as any other art form—if you go to an art museum, for instance, the chances that you'll agree on a piece of art are slim, but it happens. Same with movies, etc. The thing about music is that there is such a variety that you're bound to find something in common–so start there (usually the old school stuff works best–Priest, Sabb, etc.) It's not such a giant leap from Led Zep to Suffocation, now is it? haha.
I think the biggest problem I've found is taking my girl to shows. First off, she's short, 5'2, and invariably the tallest guy in the room always stands in front of her. Secondly, the raging testosterone at metal shows generally turns her off–guys beating on each other is lame, not like the old days, where it was more slam DANCING, but this annoys her. We were at the Eyehategod show just last weekend and pretty close to the front. The action started to get pretty heavy and she got scared and started to scream "I'M GONNA DIE!!!" and we had to move back. Other than that, my girl's good with the metal. As far the long trip question is concerned, I don't find metal good for car traveling on long trips. It makes me too aggressive and you can't sustain the volume for 8 hours. Better to bring audio books and mellow shit–better for peacekeeping and in-car sanity.
P.S. Keeferooni–that "SLATER" pic is fuckin hilarious.
I'm actually more interested in why someone would want to live in Orlando.
…and if you're a woman who loves metal, the road is a little rougher. as guys just think you're a total freak. and all the guys that do like metal are dating girls in private school that listen to paramore.
I?m not necessarily sure it?s a matter of when you tell your prospective partner you?re a metal head more a case of when they discover. In my experience they?ll spot a Slayer tee shirt in the wardrobe, the neatly hung Maiden posters or the chronologically filed Metallica tapes long before you need to pluck up the courage to confess. My first proper session with a girl was sound tracked by Corrosion of Conformity?s Blind, not through my own designs but because side A of my make out cassette had run out and COC happened to be the b-side, and I reckon by the time we?d reached that stage Vote With A Bullet wasn?t going to put her off. More than other?s attitude to metal I think it might be a young metal head?s attitude to other music that may be the stumbling block early in a relationship, aged 16 I was worried that at my, long way off, wedding no one else would enjoy Slayer and Manowar. Concerns over finding a suitably ?heavy? girlfriend may well have hindered my progress with the opposite sex. Age and experience have opened my ears to a whole world of different music and I?ve ended up married to some one who is non-plussed about metal and I enjoyed a wedding where the ?hardest? offering was Bon Jovi?s Living On A Prayer.
Good luck to everyone navigating the troublesome musical stages of early romance!
Simon
i wore a nasum human 2.0 shirt and ripped flannel on the first date. for some reason she still married my ass. she just rolls her eyes at the whole metal thing and i pretend that bjork is not the reincarnation of yoko ono.
Sawan and cookie – Bingo. Though, as keeferooni states, Disturbed/Staind could be dealbreakers. Double standard, perhaps?
Hiram – Assuming that you mean Hank Senior, dislike for him should be a dealbreaker.
ChaosPath – You and your wife should have a date night with Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights. It is salsa-riffic.
TomB – Yours is a keeper.
Anonymous3 – Wouldn't a woman who loves metal be in the catbird seat? If you're straight, the male:female ratio is absurdly stacked in your favor.
red5standingby – I would make a joke about "voting with a bullet," except that I just did. Tremendous story, thanks for sharing.
Andrew – Ballsy for your first date. Kudos!
I come with stories from the land of success! I was able to dupe a sweet intelligent girl, despite my deep commitment to metal. I have been in the relationship for 8 years and now things like the cd art for This Comp Kills Fascists doesn't even get a snicker. I started with these premises: 1) metal is not taken seriously by a vast majority of women; 2) metal on its face can be hard to understand (or seem shocking or hateful or scary); 3) the only way to convert someone to metal is to ease them into it (i.e. start w/ grunge not grind, duh)(you hate being preached to? so do they); 4) a lasting relationship is not made on initial impressions, but all relationships start w/ an initial impression; 5) no matter what type of music you like, the other person in the relationship is bound to dislike some of it and like music you don't.
So my success story begins by not disclosing my supreme metalness at the outset. I tried to make a different first impression and not scare her away. Got my foot in the door. A good starting point is to find out what she listens to and why (maybe she names some rock). At some point I would play alternative and maybe some hard rock to lay the seeds (btw, girls love glam rock, use this to your advantage). I found some bands that were a bit heavier that didn't really raise eyebrows – Soundgarden, AIC, even *gasp* Korn (they were on trl at the time). Eventually the more extreme music doesn't sound as extreme because you have laid the foundation. Example, I started my girlfriend on Opeth's Damnation and other selected lighter Opeth songs and now she doesn't mind the heavier tracks and even says…Heir Apparent is her favorite Opeth song. Victory!!! Recent Mastodon, Pelican, Torche and Isis albums have gone over pretty well. So basically, I look for things that we can both share. Look, she is never ever going to like Pig Destroyer, Magrudergrind, Nile etc. So, I listen to those bands on my own. It is really no different than your girlfriend listening to Maroon 5 while you are not around. You detest it, she loves it. Thems the ways of the feline.
Did I compromise myself or my integrity? Uh, if I did it was probably when I bought Korn and some adidas gear in high school, lolz. Either way, I now listen to black metal, grind, whatever whatever, and she could care less. She went w/ me to see Boris/Torche, she is going w/ me to the Opeth 20th anniversary show. She bought me a record player last year to play some vinyl. She goes w/ me to the record store and laughs at Anal Cunt song titles. So, I am at peace w/ my strategy.
IO – yeah, you would think that, but you'd be wrong. like i said, most metal dudes (at least where I live) are dating the most un-metal girls ever. they seem to want the meek, cutesy girls that love Mew. And the remainder of them are too meek themselves not to shit in their pants or run away when a girl approaches them.
Anon3
listen 2 deathcore get scence bitches
why would you want to'convert' a person to your way of thinking / musical taste. surely if you get on as people its not that important? i shudder to think how many great lassies i dismissed in my youthfull ignorance because they didnt like metal. (like most teenagers i was a tool.) i really dont like this idea of 'converting' people, its kind weird and would piss me off no end if some one tried to 'convert' me. I have been out with girls who have tried the normalisation process on me and its all ways ended in disaster.
Brooke, people feel lonely in their reality bubble and they need to bring other people in it, don't judge :~(
But yes once you're less lonely and more secure the whole process seems a bit absurd
"Hiram – Assuming that you mean Hank Senior, dislike for him should be a dealbreaker."
Dude, take another good look at my screen name
[Smacks forehead]
My girlfriend is fairly picky about the metal she likes. She mostly will only listen to slow heavy stoner stuff like Boris or Sleep, along with harsh, grating things like Burzum or Napalm Death.
She knew early after meeting me that I liked metal and other harsh forms of music. Though we both listen to a lot of music outside of metal like My Bloody Valentine, Queens of the Stone Age and Justice.
I love metal but would hate to date a girl who was into metal it''s like dating a girl who is into fighting or rugby.
Anonymous, that's because you, like a lot of metal fans, are actually pretty conservative and like most conservatives, buy unthinkingly into traditional gender roles.
It's like the woman above said, metal fans whinge about women not getting their tastes, yet fixate on exactly the type of princessy, traditionally 'feminine', conservative type of women who will never get their tastes in a thousand years. It could almost be seen as evidence of self-loathing, eh?
Anyway, it's certainly terribly ironic, for such allegedly self-identified 'rebellious' persons to conduct themselves in this way when it comes to relationships or at the very least, self-defeating.
When I first met my girlfriend almost seven years ago, she thought (as I later found out) that I was one of these guys into "emo-core," based on my metal t-shirts. Later, she discovered that it was much better/worse.
Once, I caught her tapping her foot to Cannibal Corpse in the car. Now, we're engaged.
Station Agent hit the nail on the head!
Anon3
Steph doesn't give a shit, metal does not define me as a husband.
RAPE 666
My friends and I, if anything, seem to be targeted by weird girls because of our underground metal tastes. They have no idea what the fuck we're really into but they pretend to be like it. It's probably because we go to a really preppy liberal school and the scummy kids seem like rebels. Sometimes it's funny. Usually it's just sad.
Anon3/StationAgent – In his book, Keith Kahn-Harris discusses this phenomenon of metalhead males dating non-metalhead females. I believe he makes the case that such metalheads lower/expand their standards in order to stand a chance of getting any play.
@StationAgent, I think I love you.
On topic: I've gradually been converting my boyfriend (I'm female) to my beloved black metal. He started out more of a death/thrash fan, but the more Watain/Dark Fortress/Secrets of the Moon/Drudkh I make him listen to, the more he likes it, mwah ha ha haaaa. My evil plan is coming to fruition.
To be fair, he's always been a Satyricon fan (I think they're OK, am not a *huge* fan) so the seeds of black-fandom were there. We're going to see Satyricon/Shining/Dark Fortress next week together and I can't wait. Metal brought us together, and as we're both such huge music fans, it's great that we can appreciate music and go to shows as a couple; he's the best gig buddy ever.
@Invisible Oranges: I have that KK-H book in my bag at the moment; as soon as my Peggle addiction fades, I am totally going to start reading it.
I'm female and into metal (black for the most part- Satanic Warmaster, a bit of Merrimack lately, etc. etc.). I pretty much dress like a normal high school-aged teenager though, so it's pretty awkward if anyone asks me what my music tastes are. I'm either vague in describing my music, or I only really describe it to people I'm already good friends with, haha
Also the majority of the guys that seem to listen to metal (or anything like it) at my school listen to stuff that I'm really not that into (Maiden, Metallica, Slayer, random death/hardcore…).
So personally, I think it's unrealistic to seek out someone that likes exactly the music you do, because you may find it to be extremely difficult? I guess I think like that because I'm into metal that's not that mainstream (in way of metal), but if you spend all your time looking for another metalhead, you may pass over people you have a lot of other things in common with.
Not to say that I wouldn't want to go out with a guy that likes extreme metal or anything, haha
Thank you StationAgent! Exactly what I have repeatedly observed for years! It drives me bloody mad listening to fellow metalheads saying a woman "isn't that great" or even "ugly" solely because she is heavily tattooed, has really short hair or a bull-ring piercing (which is seriously hot in my book). I kind of suspect some of these guys see pulling sweet non-metal princesses as some sort of affirmation of the masculine appeal of metal to the broader society from which they claim outcast status, especially compared to other sub-cultures like hip-hop etc. If metalheads (of all people!) can't appreciate alternative femininities why the hell should women see anything legitimate in our particular expression of masculinity?