 |
Simon Reynolds’ blog is currently hosting a lively discussion about various aspects of metal, including sexism and sexlessness, hipster metal, and why people who like electronic music also like metal.
The latter interests me the most, and Reynolds sums it up well – like metal, some strains of electronic music are dark, apocalyptic, and riff-based. Obviously the cultural circumstances are different, but the energy is often similar.
The former interests me somewhat. If hair metal counts as metal, then metal was most popular with females when it was most sexist. Huh?
The issue of hipster metal hardly interests me now. So many people have written on it that thinking about it makes my head hurt. However, as a metal writer, I feel somewhat obligated to weigh in on it, if only so I never have to do it again.
My take on hipster metal is this: hipsters get into metal when they find non-metallic things about it. In other words, they’re turned off by the essence of metal, whatever that is. I think most metalheads would agree that there is such an essence (and that it appeals to them). Hipsters, too, might perceive such an essence. They would also run the hell away from it.
What’s their problem with metal? They perceive it as unintelligent. But what exactly does that mean? I think, objectively speaking, that lots of metal is intelligent. The music is often complex (much more so than normal pop music) and requires intelligence to put together. Sure, there’s often posturing (especially with what I call “big words” metal). But the intellectual levels of metalheads and non-metalheads, in my life at least, don’t differ.
So why the perception of stupidity? I think that it’s a sort of classism. Metal began as white underclass music, and that stigma remains in the stereotype of the knuckle-dragging longhair. Sure, metalheads don’t do themselves any favors by buying into that and wearing “the metal uniform” without thinking. I suppose that, externally, the uniform is typical subculture conformity; internally, it’s a show of solidarity. But that’s another issue, and I really need to get to bed.
Hipsters (and anyone, really) can enjoy metal in two ways. The first way is by applying outside values to it. Hipsters need to intellectualize things. They want to appreciate things other than for what they are. They want albums to be “important.” The second way, of course, is to actually enjoy the music.
To be extremely reductive, metal can be divided into two kinds: Dionysian and polished. Dionysian, of course, implies something wilder – pain, passion, destruction. Polished is, well, polished. To me, Venom and Iron Maiden are the roots of these varieties. All metal came from Sabbath, but I see metal diverging into this dichotomy around the same time with these bands. Venom led to black metal, more underground styles of death metal, thrash, and so on. Iron Maiden led to power metal, goth metal, and Trivium.
Hipsters like Dionysian metal. Initially, this doesn’t make sense. You’d think they wouldn’t be into metal’s scarier side. Bands on Century Media are much more “accessible” than those on Southern Lord. However, the Dionysian side lends itself to intellectual discourse about the Dionysian side. There are countless black metal reviews where the writer somehow tries to turn the review into a written version of the album’s sound. These are usually unreadable, but they illustrate the music’s poetic nature.
Iron Maiden, on the other hand, is about Iron Maiden. Sure, they have lots of songs about war, but the lyrics aren’t exactly literary grade. And, besides, the songs are so long that enjoying Iron Maiden for the lyrics is really missing the point. The band rocks, and it rocks in a way that signifies metal culture. It’s tough to apply outside values to Iron Maiden. I know, since I reviewed their latest album for Stylus, which has a decidedly non-metal audience. I tried to discuss the lyrics, but got far more mileage out of the Ozzfest scandal.
More importantly, it’s useless to apply outside values to Iron Maiden. Its core audience doesn’t care – which translates to all the hipster theorizing in the world not affecting its sales one bit.
To shut this Pandora’s Box I’ve opened, I’ll close with my guesses as to why three bands are popular with hipsters. Of course, herd mentality figures into this, but I’m talking about aesthetics.
Isis
External values: Small-big-small dynamics seem revolutionary. Long, repetitive songs appeal to fans of Ricardo Villalobos.
Internal values: Has melody. Guitar tones often resemble those of The Cure.
Sunn O)))
External values: Drones and hoods.
Internal values: No drums. Hipsters can’t deal with rhythm. Hence, the popularity of minimal techno and other “white funk.”
Mastodon
External values: Concept albums about literary characters (despite the fact that metal bands have done these since day one)
Internal values: Mastodon actually not that heavy. Guitar tones often resemble those in indie rock. Meandering prog structures appeal to fans of The Mars Volta.
saw you mentioned on blissblog. cool! hope it steers more people to your blog.
Oh man I’m going to write you a novel when I get back from where I need to be in 15 minutes.
That’s an interesting take on hipster metal. In France, hipster are described by a different expression : bobo, which means bourgeois boh
My experience is that hipsters and metal do not mix well together. All too often metal is perceived as “low brow.” It’s really unfortunate.
hororo – yes, I was describing an American phenomenon. I wish I knew more what it’s like in other countries. Here in Germany, the black metal shows I’ve attended have been purely populated by metalheads.
It’s debatable whether metal is still underclass music. Of course, that is and always will be a large part of the audience. But a culture that revolves around consumption – CD’s, shirts, concert tickets, “support your band” – requires money.
I think live shows carry the true essence of metal in synaesthetic form. To truly appreciate metal, one must appreciate the shows. I bet Sunn O))), even rhythmless, captures the low end of regular metal and maybe the atmosphere that black metallers like.
You’re blogging up a storm over there in France. It looks like good stuff – I really wish I could read it
vince – you’re right. Too bad they don’t recognize art unless they’re told it’s such.
Well,
aren’t hipsters generally listening to metal they read about on “hipster” websites (with decidedly non-metal audiences
)?
Also : There are reasons why you don’t review Edguy or Grave Digger, right?
(not much of a point yet, trying to clarify later)
Just started reading/listening to your blog, and turning my non-hipster metal friends onto it as well. I found this discussion very interesting – I didn’t even realize there was much of a hipster interest in metal.
Is that why I can’t get into Mastodon at all? Anyway – thanks for this. Will keep tuning in.
sven – I do write for a hipster website, but the way I write is decidedly free of hype. I cover only what interests me. Sometimes that includes what’s “hip,” often it does not. And, in fact, I’m not sure if any visitor of that site actually reads me. The few metalheads who do comment on my work there generally know far more than me, and are the types who make up their own minds.
I actually reviewed Edguy for that site, and felt that I had thrown objects into a bottomless well. Now, yes, I save the “true metal” reviews for “true metal” audiences.
rage – there is definitely a hipster interest in metal. See the hipster websites – and various NYT and Village Voice articles on metal in recent years. Also, when the leading extreme metal magazine, Decibel, is getting namechecked by Simon Reynolds, something’s going on.
What’s your reason/motivation for writing for Stylus?
Disclaimer:Your reviews there brought me to your blog in the first place, so it’s just a question – as for me: I was a metalhead in my teenage years; right now I don’t consider myself a hipster (just having a broad musical taste), but it’s simply that I find the metal that actually interests me covered on hipstersites (Show no mercy/Left Hand Path-Columns) more than in “Rock Hard Magazine” etc.
(Btw. what does the nigel in “nigel hipster” refer to? I read about the origin, but…)
sven – I write for Stylus for a number of reasons (and thanks for reading!). First, there’s hardly any music criticism I like reading, especially for the music I like. So I write reviews I’d want to read (and occasionally I succeed). Second, writing for a non-metalhead audience is an interesting challenge, though the fun in that has considerably waned over time. Third, it’s a great opportunity to learn about new music.
Metal’s had almost 40 years to grow, so it’s a lot more varied now. There will always be Terrorizers and Rock Hards to cover more traditional forms, and hipstersites to cover metal’s explorations outside itself. I think such diversity is rich and healthy.
PS. I haven’t been able to find out what “nigel” means in that context. urbandictionary and the rest of the Internet have been unhelpful.
I’m actually kind of dissilusioned with the way “true” metal fans have been reacting to the sudden influx of hipster interest. I’ve known several people who could be classified as “hipsters” who were genuinely intrigued by bands like Mastodon, Isis, and (oddly enough) Pig Destroyer for both the metal and non-metal aspects of the sound. The reason (at least from the metalheads I’ve talked to about it) for the enmity between hipsters and metalheads is that metalheads feel like they’re being mocked by the irony-addicted hipster scene. What we have to realize is that alot of the aspects that have turned people off of metal for so long actually are worthy of mockery. Think about it: Inane gore-obssessed lyrics, ham-fisted philosophical meanderings (Deathspell Omega), power metal cheese, black metal face paint! These things really are ridiculous, people, and most metalheads with half a brain have known this for some time. But these things are also part of what makes metal what it is, and despite it’s external absurdity, underneath all that, we’ve built a vibrant, imaginative, varied, intelligent, and thriving scene of musicians and fans; And that’s what a large portion of hipsters are starting to see.
Now there is some validity to the claim that hipster interest is more of a passing trend “flavor of the month” type thing, and some of them will get off the bandwagon as soon as the next cool thing comes along. I would be extremely surprised if, in five or so years, there were still being articles published in non-metal mags about bands like SunnO))) and such, but, again, we have to remember, out of that larger trend will come a certain number of people who earnestly enjoy it, and see the validity that we’ve always known was there.
Unfortunately uberkvlt knee-jerk purists are being just as hard-headed about hipsters as hipsters have been to metal. I could understand a little warriness about the seemingly instant ‘about face’ that’s occured in the general perception of metal as neandertholic, low-brow trash, and I really think that part of this backlash is related to pent-up (or not so pent up) resentment toward hipsters for holding that perception for so long. But it’s just as stupid for us to assume that every non-metalhead at a Mastodon concert is entirely disengenuous. It’s like refusing to take a gift becuase you were angry that it hadn’t been given to you earlier. It’s juveneille.
Hipster interest is not a threat to metal, and metalheads need to stop treating it like that.
I was discussing with a Pittsburgh metal band called Crown the Lost that I just reviewed for metal column in AMP and they were talking about scenesters at metal shows lately and normally I could care less since a lot are eye candy of the female persuasion, but mostly it bothers me if people are at a metal gig and aren’t really that into it. I can see being there with friends or whatever, but we all do take this shit pretty seriously. I can’t imagine a bunch of party girls drinking and flashing 1349, you know?
Ray, you have to admit that if party girls *were* drinking and flashing 1349 – that would be pretty hot.
In some alternate universe, hateful, grim black metal is the sound of frat row keggers.
Invisible oranges : Thanks for the kind words about my blog.
Hipster’s interest in metal, as a whole, is a trend that will go away, but hopefully a few people will stay and enjoy this kind of music even if it is not what they listen to the most.
What I find really sad is that people can’t stay away from words to define what they like and therefore think their live should fit in the little boxes that this words define.
Metal is a culture so the term itself as a very large meaning and defines the music but also some kind of behavior and maybe even a way of thinking. There is a very ridiculous and extreme part of this culture that can mocked but mostly Metal is made by serious musician who knows when not to take themselves too seriously. In fact, that is why most metalhead think Manowar are stupid and too over the top, even for death metal fans who enjoys lyrics about various kinds of disembowelment.
At the end of the day, all music should be about enjoying something, even if it means enjoying being depressed, because it makes you see the whold world differently. That what music and art is all about and what I think is definitly sadder than hipster going to metal shows and having difficulties to understand some metal head’s behavior is that to enjoy this kind of music, magazines had to give different names (like drone or post hardcore) for people to start enjoying these bands.
I too have avoided the subject, but finally broke down and had to write my discourse on it. However, mine is more from a perspective of “what the fuck is wrong with US” perspective, with “us” being the metal community, that we begin to define OUR music by who listens to it. WE are becoming THEM. It’s disgusting.
I agree that most Manowar fans probably feel like they’ve done real work and climbed Mt. Olympus, only to have flocks of hipster metal vultures flapping frantically in front of their faces for as long as they can stand the strain, meanwhile completely shitting up the view.
Hipsters are smart at reading signs and can skip a lot of the necessary hazing process in metal, hone in on the good stuff. Of course the original metal settlers are pissed!
Metal needs more naive fans like hipsters, though, and the ability to laugh at black metal bands who wear top hats while still freaking out on their music.
Personally, I think it’s a non-issue, not to mention how difficult it is to judge the intentions of people you’ve never met before. Any record that sells over 5,000 copies is a popular art form, so prepare to meet the populace.
And I’d like to add that Geezer Butler wore thrift store T-shirts in the 1970s advertising American summer camps. Metal invented ironic music culture.
Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
Help, please. All recommend this program to effectively advertise on the Internet, this is the best program!
Mastodon? Not heavy? I can maybe see why you’d say that now, after Crack The Skye, but considering this was written in 2007… fucking hell. Go and pick up a copy of Remission. Listen to Mother Puncher. It’s STUPIDLY heavy. Then get a copy of Call Of The Mastodon, and listen to Shadows That Move. Equally so.
Thanks James, I was right above to say that.
Guy, listen to “Where Strides the Behemoth”.
Mastodon licensed a track to the US army to recruit poor people to go die in Afghanistan. Lame crap.
“No drums. Hipsters can’t deal with rhythm. Hence, the popularity of minimal techno”
this is silly. the whole article is.
This is totally me… Is it a bad thing or a good thing? I’m leaning more towards bad lol.
I’m just going to go with the popular opinion that I am a crazy person. I love metal as.much as true metalheads, yet I’ve been thrust into social situations with hipsters. They seemed to resent that a nondescript dude such as myself was into such abhorrent shit like daughters, and had a noticeable influence in playing style from black metal. SPECIFICALLY 1349 and gorgoroth. I just say I’m insane because these moustache combing, empty eyed hipsters would make fun of my musical taste, then ASK ME TO FUCKIN PLAY MUSIC WITH THEM.. Penchant for irony, indeed. Its especially funny when I’m supposed to be ashamed for getting black out drunk. Clearly, I don’t look much different from them because I’m a minimalist, but I don’t have to sacrifice having very diverse thought and taste. This whole “nigel hipster” label hasn’t been applied to me yet, but I don’t think it fits. But seriously, what hipster self-identifies as such? And if they do, without a THICK layer of sarcasm? Being around so many people so obsessed with one-upping each other in avenues of expression, or art, or just in their ways of diverting themselves is no fun. YET IT TOTALLY IS. I feel like we may be losing the true meaning behind experimentation, and we are too often encouraged to go straight to what works. Reading this, I realize I’m late to the party, and that this isn’t totally coherent. I could go for days and not spit out a satisfactory summary of this weird war between two different, very similar groups.
I also forgot to bring up the possibility that maybe black metal musicians are considered hipsters in Norway?
Demiurge: Metalheads hate Hipsters because they’re constantly ruining everything they assimilate into their culture with their safe, mainstream sensibilities. The ones into Metal (and Punk) are no different than their trendy, used-to-be-scene, brostep-listening siblings. They’re just another menace trying to feed off Metal, like the Glam Metallers of the 80’s or the Nu-Metallers of the 90’s.
There’s no hate because we think they’re mocking us, there’s hate because they are taking the Metal out of Metal. It’s kind of like what happens when a Punk genre becomes commercially trendy; it loses it’s oomph, and it just becomes souless drivel that barely sounds like Punk. They’re taking everything that Metal means and stands for, stomping on it, and replacing it with their own shallow identity.
And the music suffers because of it. You can see that just by comparing Metal made by/for metalheads, and Metal made by/for hipsters. Metal needs that in-your-face Heavy Metal arrogance and attitude, and Hipsters just don’t provide that. Besides, most of them probably only show any interest because Metal is a fairly underground genre, not because they actually have an interest in Metal.
me and my friends (who are at uni and into photography and shit) are going to go watch Electric wizzard soon. We’re all in our early 20’s and have as such only reacently (within a few years) got into doom metal. I would’nt concider myself a hipster, but the description does match a few of my mates. ‘Metal heads’, ‘hipsters’ and all other labels aside, we’re gona have a good time, probably get high and enjoy some heavy music.
As a fan of metal, it had reacently come to my attention (with help from posts like this) that there has been an increase in what could be concidered ‘hipster interest’. Does not conceren me as a music fan in the slightest, infact (as someone has already stated above) i think its healthy for the uderground metal scene and just adds more deiversity to an already fruitfull subculture.
But see, Jo, while it would add some diversity (.. as if those soulless morons called Hipsters have any diversity to add), the problem is it’s Hipsters.
You know. Trendy, mainstream-friendly, try-hards who are the sub-culture equivalent of The Blob, assimilating and destroying anything they come across, and then adding it on to their own meaningless and abhorrent existence.
As a music fan, you should be concerned, because from the music angle is sucks even worse. All the soullessness of their existence is put into the music, too. It’s Metal sans-Metal, just like back in the early 2000’s they were all caught up in making faux-Hardcore without any actual Punk in it.
Also they try to be incredibly artsy. Not good artsy, either. Bad artsy. Like Lulu, or trying to make some deep meaning out of a dog shitting.
Fair enough, i can see where you’re coming from. Until we stop viewing each other by our pretences, there will always be devision amongst fans. I’ve often thought that metal infact feeds (thrives) off of the friction that it generates but i don’t know.
‘good artsy’ and ‘bad artsy’ is fairly subjective. haha Nothing wrong with being opinionated when it comes to music that you like… or is there???
@Jo It sounds like you’re one of the lucky ones who’s in an area that’s actually looking to cultivate musical growth. I’m in an area more concerned with the cultivation of an image/music that can easily be packaged and profited from.. I’m lucky to retain my reverence for music of all kinds, and am definitely a drifter amongst circles, but it’s easy to lose passion and especially hope for the future of the genre when these kids scream about how much they hate metal at a metal show! Then, the next night (often), they host a party with equally loud and abrasive music that, to a metal fan, sounds like fuckin metal lolol…
The issue at hand seems to be the fear of acquiring a social stigma that isn’t present in a musical hub, it’s only supposed to exist in middle-through-high schools. God forbid an outlet of expression be used for aggression or chaos at the cost of “cool points”.
Metal elitism is fucking hilarious to me. I listen to metal ‘cos I fuckin’ like it. If it sounds good, if it’s well-written and if it’s fucking heavy, who cares if it’s a bit “artsy”? Music is music, metal is metal. It’s the most diverse genre going, what’s wrong with a little experimentation? I mean I’m your stereotypical battle-jacket-wearing long-haired ale-swilling bearded metal dude, but I don’t see the point in ascribing such elitism to metal. It’s just music. Don’t attach greater worth to the music than it actually has, because that is the DICTIONARY DEFINITION of pretentious and it makes you no better than these hipsters you claim are feeding off metal.
srsly, grow up, y’all.
“…there’s hate because they are taking the Metal out of Metal.”
Such a ridiculous statement. The idea that, because they are doing something different, it somehow stops YOU and others who like ‘metal’ from making more of it? That’s not even a straw man argument, it’s objectively bollocks.